How to Measure 50/50 Circuit Resonance 

VIC Resonance Scope Shots

Max Miller Tutor

 

this is what the meyer vic resonance looks like 

i have been working on this for a while. this is what i do with the secret threads. when ready.........it pops up 

please everyone, if you are going to post the information somewhere else......make sure they know where it came from 
united is the only way this will get finished 
and united, then no one dies for it 
this needs finished........everyone needs to stand up for this 

Max Miller

red is the pulse from the frequency generator 

yellow is the pulse across the primary 

green is the output from the vic

red is the pulse from the signal generator 

yellow is the pulse across the primary. the primary is an inductive load so it becomes wider then the original pulse.

the magnetic field is shown in blue. 

the main pulse causes the core to have a magnetic field in it which can be seen with a magnetic field probe.

the output to the cell is shown in green. these are all positive pulses

the green output pulses .... you can see the pulse has now become twice the original pulses

here you can see that the voltage pulse continues well after the original pulse had ended

note the magnetic field is a sine wave. the number shown on the left is 0 volts referance. basically the voltage swings 
from pos to neg. in this case it is magnetic field strength, shown with a magnetic field probe displaying the curve 
on the scope.

the main pulse is a unipolar pulse from the frequency generator that can vary in voltage aplitude. 
from 0 to up to and over 12 volts, depending on the application

the main frequency is a pulse train of unipolar pulses. the pulses are formed by a frequency generator, then the off time of the pulses are formed by gate. the gate is just another circuit that turns the first pulse on and off. 

like this

now the main frequency is a 50% duty cycle like this

the gate however is not a 50% duty cycle. the gate is adjustable in on and off time. 

like this

the gate relaxes and turns off the magnetic field 
the blue trace is the magnetic field shown with a noncontact field probe 
as you can see the gate turns off the unipolar pulse 
on time is the blue wave, off time is a blank screen

the main frequency and the gate can be seen in the unipolar pulses from the frequency generator in red. 

the pulse in the primary can be seen in yellow

which brings us back to the pulse across the primary 
the primary is an inductive load, so the on time is wider because the inductor slows the pulse down 
so the pulse no longer looks like a 50% duty cycle. the on time looks longer then the input pulse. 
the gate still effects the on time of the pulses

which applies a AC type magnetic field in the core. 
AC as in the magnetic field is pos and neg

now the output from the vic 
all pulses are pos, as in they are all above the 0 reference on the scope. 
note the 832 volts and 180 volts in green in the upper right. and the number 3 on the bottom left. 
the 832 and 180 on the upper right are the positive voltage pulse train. the 3 on the lower left is pointing to 0 reference 
so this is meyers unipolar pulse to apply to the cell

now this is the pulse doubling or tripling.... the magnetic field in the core and the inductive load has imparted a added frequency 
as you can see here. the main frequency is shown and the output frequency is shown

the diode 
the diode is placed between the secondary and the pos choke
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STILL ON A MISSION FOR GOD 
IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT, LEAVE THIS FORUM! 

 

the diode 
the diode is placed between the secondary and the pos choke 
a diode looks like this

this is the meyer vic with wireing shown as copied from Don Gabels' drawing

what the diode does is separate the pos inductor from the secondary. the pos inductor needs to resonate with the tube. this makes a tank circuit. 
a tank circuit is when a capacitor and a inductor resonate at the same frequency 

what is a tank circuit 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit 

so now the hho cell has become part of the circuit, as a water capacitor, with capacitance and resistance. 
the inductor has become a inductor with capacitance and resistance. 
the diode stops the tank circuit from using the secondary as part of the inductor. 

the capacitance of the inductor must be used in the tank formula, just as the inductance must be used in the formula. the resistance of the cell and resistance of the wire, also needs to be figured.

now the C2 inductor on the negitive side. this is adjusted to help form the voltage off set onto the cell and the phase relationship of the pulses. 
the neg inductor works out of Phase with the positive inductor. this keeps the voltage from drawing amps

 

now the C2 inductor on the negitive side. this is adjusted to help form the voltage off set onto the cell and the phase relationship of the pulses. 
the neg choke must be adjusted to get the cell to function as a voltage potential, and let the voltage take over and do the work. 
a charged voltage potential is what does the work, not amps. once the plates are charged, then the water splits from being pulled apart by static voltage, and not amps.
 

tuning of a tank circuit is over 100 years old. 
a crystal radio used the same principle, 100 years ago. in fact the old knob tuned radios all worked off the same principle. 
turning a knob actually tuned a capacitor or a inductor. the radio station broacasts at some known frequency, 
you merely tuned your radio into the same frequency as the radio station. 
as you tune into the correct frequency, the voltage amplitude goes up and the radio broadcast becomes louder and clearer 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat's-whisker_detector 

http://www.techlib.com/electronics/crystal.html#Crystal%20Radio
 

tuning of a tank circuit is over 100 years old. 
a crystal radio used the same principle, 100 years ago. in fact the old knob tuned radios all worked off the same principle. 
turning a knob actually tuned a capacitor or a inductor. the radio station broacasts at some known frequency, 
you merely tuned your radio into the same frequency as the radio station. 
as you tune into the correct frequency, the voltage amplitude goes up and the radio broadcast becomes louder and clearer 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat's-whisker_detector 

http://www.techlib.com/electronics/crystal.html#Crystal%20Radio
 

the cells form a resistance of sorts, the more cells you have in series, the more resistance and the less capacitance. which all become part of the tank circuit 
cells in series, become capacitors in series, which reduces the capacitance. 
cells in parallel, become capacitors in parallel, which adds capacitance. 
cells in series add resistance 
wire length adds resistance, as well as wire material can be different resistance 
wires side by side form capacitance 
wires wrapped around in a circle, form inductance
 

the primary and secondary are just a pulsed transformer. the highest voltage output will be at a frequency determed by the core saturation and gate applied to it. the output will be an AC type wave and the core will not be saturated, but just below saturation. 
saturation means the core would be a full on magnet 
as you can see here the pulse forming network increases the magnetic field of the core and then the gate turns off to allow the core to unmagnetise.
-----

 

the primary and secondary are just a pulsed transformer. 
the highest voltage output will be at a frequency determed by the core saturation and gate applied to it. 
the output will be an AC type wave and the core will not be saturated, but just below saturation. 
saturation means the core would be a full on magnet 
as you can see here the pulse forming network increases the magnetic field of the core and then the gate turns off to allow the core 
to unmagnetise. 

this is from a magnetic field probe resting on the core material 
this will be the wave induced into the secondary and or a pick up coil

ote the 2 C core are really a TOROID. 
a toroid is just a doughnut shaped core 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroidal_inductors_and_transformers

 

note the 2 C core are really a TOROID. 
a toroid is just a doughnut shaped core 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroidal_inductors_and_transformers 

toroid math and vectors apply
 

the original VIC with the flat cores.

inside the vic is a flat ferrite core, the core must be custom made and is expensive 
research suggest the cores are 2000 permeability with a gap, and 1200 permeability with no gap. 
it is my opinion that a gap would be used to adjust or tune the cores.

this is one VIC Max built and  working on 
2000 permeability core and cast resin bobbins

this is a possible replacement cored VIC 
the Tv flyback core is 2000 permeability and the bobbins are made from pvc, which can be easily cut and glued together.

The proper wind for the direction for the VIC is most likely shown here with the start DOT shown and the approx 
number of turns for the original with proper connection as shown in the Meyer paper work. 
Please note, the actual turn ratio is plus or minus from the numbers shown here.

and the original drawing from stan himself

this shows the distributed inductance and capacitance of the coil inductors. only

this shows where the LC resonance is 
capacitance, inductanc...... resistance is always there 
note the resonate cavity is clearly marked as the capacitor

now here he clearly shows us the electrical charging effect becomes a static field across the water. 
B+ and B- are generally shown as a magnetic field

here he tells us the charge comes from the resinant charging chokes and shows the chokes have resistance and capacitance as well as inductance

here he shows us that the L1 is the charging choke and L2 is the inhibiting choke and the cell is a resistor and a capacitor

here he shows the skin effect on the plates and the voltage step charging in the water

here he lays it all out in one picture. uni polar pulse train into primary and out the secondary, then the inductors in relationship to the cell and the diode

and again the static field displaces ions and charges the water

here is the wire turn ratio for the meyer flat vic 
as posted long ago drawn as to dons sketch

ferrite cores are 1200 to 2000 permabilaty 

i can get all the cores you want.

 

it depends on how you wind the wire. 
the iductance is spot on with just a little gap, trick is the wind, cant be perfect, i dont think stan machine wound his bobbins
-----

most cores you will find will be 2000 perm, if you are using a tv flyback core, most likely it will be 2000 perm. 

there is a reson why meyer made custom cores. i may go into that later. 

as i said, this is just the beginning info i posted. it is much more in depth to fully understand it

 

trick is to match the frequency with everything else. that is what i have always said. 
if you read and read meyers papers, you will notice that he does not pin a magic frequency down

 

as i said previously 
it is greatly dependant on the wind of the wire, the gap, wire insulation thickness. 
also there are lot numbers on the cores, reason is, one lot of ferrite mix, will be different then the next, even from the manufacturer...i personal called 3 different core manufactures that were able to make these cores. i talked to the engineers. this is what they told me, directly 


i have 1200 perm through 2600 perm, i also have iron 

the numbers above produce the same inductance as what don measured 

simular results , different gaps. 

really we do not know if there was a gap or not in the originals, far as i know, the originals were not bolted together when photographed. 

i have cores up to 3600 perm, the tv flyback cores i use cost me 10 dollars each the flat cores are custom made(and reflect that in the price), and there is no way of knowing the exact make up material of stans, even if we knew the exact perm, the core material could be anything. i have 2 sets of cores, same perm, different materials. 2 different operating frequencies. 

also, you can have too much gap 

gaps make different flux fields into the coil winds, as do different pulses, and different pulse trains 

ed has a 10 unit cell 
this is his cell, in this video, with connections 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1MaoxF3xM8
 

if you use the the tv flyback cores............ 

they are around 2000 perm and you will need to gap them. 
if you buy the assembled flyback transformer from ebay, put them in the freezer and then give the wire coil a good twist. the glue will beak. 
careful though, the cores break easy. they come with plastic shims to gap it. 

wire it with 30 ga wire 
Pri is 10.5 ohms which is 101.74 feet 
Sec is 72.4 ohms which is 701.55 feet 
C1 is 76.1 ohms which is 737.4 feet 
C2 is 70.1 ohms which is 679.26 feet 

frequncy would be determined by inductance and core perm

 

if you use stans flat cores 

they are 1200 perm with no gap, 2000 perm with a gap 

wind them with 29 ga wire 
Pri is 10.5 ohms which is 128 feet 
Sec is 72.4 ohms which is 884 feet 
C1 is 76.1 ohms which is 929 feet 
C2 is 70.1 ohms which is 855 feet 

and again, frequency is dertermined by inductance and perm 

UPDATE 2016 RWG TEAM

Posted By nav rwg

I have shared to our Group , this is based on hho wet cell from meyers
it can be applied to all cells provided you understand the capacitance of the cell.

Many people have been working towards understanding this for many many years.

The Applications are very deep and broad.

Massive, massive, massive breakthrough, finally got somewhere.
« 6 days ago »Last edited 6 days ago
Finally after years and years of testing and nothing, this morning I've got the breakthrough I've been looking for. Been testing my drive circuit on a VIC this morning, the whole set up is pictured below. The secondary has to be a bifilar and wound exactly like Tesla's but you have to put a resistor (R5) across the secondary as pictured below that equals the total resistance of the cancelled linear inductance field of all 3 coils in the resonant circuit otherwise it justs burns the wire out because it acts as a dead short.
Another thing i've discovered this morning is this: The diode does not work if there is no gap in the core underneath the primary because the core shorts the resonant circuit out and instead of current being cancelled in the Tesla bifilar it leaks through the core into the 2 inductors. 
I racked my brains for weeks trying to figure all this out about the air gap and yesterday I finished my drive circuit so I just got my bobbin of 48 gauge out this morning and just did it the Tesla way.
I had no resistor where R5 is in the circuit because I didn't realise and the wire just lit up bright orange and burned out as I increased the voltage. As soon as I put a resistor in that location, it cured the problem but the circuit was still using current somewhere to charge a cap and I couldn't figure it out. I slid my primary over the gap in the core and that meant I had 2 gaps and it wouldn't charge the secondary at all because the flux circuit was broken on both sides of the core. That didn't work either.
I knew I was close but missing something important about the core and then it dawned on me that you only need ONE gap in the core to allow the diode to work and that gap is underneath the primary. So I grinded 5mm off one of my core legs on the primary side so that the primary was sat over the gap and straddling it but the C cores were touching on the choke side of the core. BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO.
The secondary gets red hot believe me and if you put too much current into it you will melt it into a blob of copper, it needs to be in oil or something. 
The primary bridges the gap in the core during charging of the core, thats why Stan has an hole in the plastic frame so he see's how wide his gap is but its only on the primary side. When the secondary and chokes start to self resonate, the core won't allow a short circuit anymore so the diode begins to work and you get high voltage and hardly no current. The current I measured was the value of the resistor R5. Anyone can do this test in minutes, all you need to do is sweep your frequency of your main pulser until you see the voltage go up in the chokes to find their self resonance then ping the circuit at half of that. Twiddle the resistors R6 and R7 and you'll see the amp meter go up and down.
I wasn't going to spend any more money on this but I am now I've got the VIC working. I'm making a video of the whole process and a detailed description of how it works.
The resistor on Stan's circuit is not on the primary its on the bifilar secondary. I've read some more Tesla patents and other bits by other people and this is why my wire which I replaced with R5 burned out: In a Tesla bifilar coil, the linear inductance is neutralised by opposing current directions and the resistance of this opposition is distributed evenly across the entire coil at an even temperature. However, where wire A and B and connected together on the outside of the coil the resistance is no longer distributed evenly and a resistive spike occurs that can be described as a dc short. The resistance must be met with the same value as the entire resistive value of the coil itself. There is no wonder my wire burned out PMSL.
I've marked where this occurs on a Tesla coil and where it occured in my circuit.

Allow an inductor to be an inductor when charging it but don't allow it to be an inductor when discharging it.
Everything else is hogwash.

Please note, the 48 gauge wire I used this morning was for test purposes. Full setups use 29 or 30 gauge.

SIDE NOTE

UFO_politics has started a thread on another forum doing hard research into Ken Wheeler's theory of magnetism:
http://www.energeticforum.com/…/20331-enlightened-magnetism…

The reason I mention this stems from Nav's placement of the primary directly over a single gapped core. If you dig into the thread above ignoring all the BS talk and just consider what is being explained/demonstrated, I think it may become clear as to what is really going on, hopefully leading to all sorts of great inventions and maybe even a change in the course of history.

What Nav has done may be a novel way to produce fuel from water; that's pretty cool in and of itself, but suppose we can make true self-looped electrical generators from these techniques too. Now that would be really cool.

NOte from Nav

I was convinced from the start that Tesla was the influence in this VIC and I stopped reading other people and read Tesla more and more till I began to understand a little about the VIC. This morning I just thought to myself, forget what Stan is doing, start off with a Tesla bifilar coil and work from there so I built one. Burning out the wire was the beginning of the Tesla lesson, having my C core in two halves was a Meyer lesson and I knew damn well that Stan did not put those holes in the core frame for nothing and I always had it in my mind that the core was shorting the diode out.

My next job after building the full size VIC is making sure I match the VIC to the cell perfectly. I've got the lengths of the tubes worked out pretty much but I need to figure out a plus or minus 10% device where I can fine tune the reactance of the VIC to the reactance of the cell. Stan used a wiper arm on the negative choke on the VIC because of the inaccuracy of his coil winding but what can you use at the Cell end? I was thinking in terms of shortening one of my 6 tube sets and add some kind of heavy duty variable capacitor or sliding one of the inner tubes upwards to change the reactance.

Can you wind your coils with several taps, maybe a dozen or so or add small (low turn count) chokes between the cell and VIC?

What I envision is a method to size the electronics to many different types of cell arrangements; the reason being there are a lot of cells out there already people have made and if we can come up with a way to get them all singing, that would be huge progress. Heck, I have a 1000 dollar cell sitting in a box my neighbor machinist made for me--a lot of good it does if you can't drive it.

Any reason for alternating the polarity of the cells instead of them all having internal tube as positive? Thanks for sharing 2 years of hard work also.
The distributed capacitance in the coils needs to be distributed evenly both on the positive and negative tubes.

In a normal cap both plates are the same size to achieve this but in the tubes you have a greater surface area on the outer tube than the inner tube which is not even distribution.

To balance this you need a minimum of 2 tube sets so that you would have an inner positive and outer negative then inner negative and outer positive. Now you have the same voltage per mm2 across the entire tube set.

The hardest thing to understand when matching tube sets to cells is that we are not dealing with linear inductance anymore. The bifilar secondary causes the linear inductance to be a static value and my R5 resistor deals with that but now we have electrostatic inductance down the length of the coil and the maths is pretty complex. If you read Tesla's papers on longtitudinal waves, the calculations and maths are all in there but its not easy and it took me 2 days to do the maths but basically you are finding out how many tubes can fit in your coil then finding the difference between round wire and tube.
To simplify this imagine you have a coil of wire on a former that is 3 feet long, your coil is wrapped around the former all the way along and now your coil width is 3 feet wide same as the former, the wire thickness is 1mm and the diameter of the former is 20mm. Your first tube would be three feet long, 21mm diameter and 1mm thickness devided by 78% which is the difference between solid copper tube and a wrapped copper tube. You then wrap another layer of wire on top of the first layer, your next tube would need to be 3 feet long, 22mm diameter etc etc. In the real world the thickness of our wire is 0.25mm and that means 4 layers of coil wire per 1mm tube. Its complex but it can be done.
I went for searching for tesla and longitudinal waves, one thing interesting i did find....
in the picture below circled in red, the circuit looks very similar to stans:
two inductors in series with a capacitor ( condensor in teslas case), and a frequency generator.
There is also a tesla coil in there also, I've found it hard to find any circuit that has inductor/capacitor/inductor in series.I went for searching for tesla and longitudinal waves, one thing interesting i did find....
in the picture below circled in red, the circuit looks very similar to stans:
two inductors in series with a capacitor ( condensor in teslas case), and a frequency generator.
There is also a tesla coil in there also, I've found it hard to find any circuit that has inductor/capacitor/inductor in series.

Old news perhaps, but as for a replacement for the 1N1198a diode google showed me Vishay 25FR100PBF or 25F60PBF, depending on if you want the anode or the cathode to be connected to the stud.

Edit: 25FR60PBF and/or 25F60PBF has the same data as the 1N1198a, only they're capable of rectifying 25A instead of 20A, which of course is preferable, with the same 600V reverse bias voltage as the 1N1198a.
I'm guessing though if you go for a 1000V or 1200V diode then that couldn't possibly impede cell performance any, remains to be seen though.

================================
Forum Feed Back on above 
Quote from nav on December 19th, 11:50 PM
The secondary gets red hot believe me and if you put too much current into it you will melt it into a blob of copper, it needs to be in oil or something. 
The current I measured was the value of the resistor R5.
Quote from nav on December 19th, 11:50 PM
Anyone can do this test in minutes,
Interesting ...

Nav I was wanting to glean some technique from your setup. 
now if i read right you just tested your coil without loading it up to cell?
if not Do you have measurement of voltage input to cell?
hows your gas production?

you mentioned your wire was burning up so you added a resistor.

the reason im asking is because as far as energy consumption is concerned ive seen as little as 1watt of consumption 
and producing bubbles... not using high voltage rather low voltage and low amperage.
I would like to compare the High voltage to low voltage results.

anyways Ive had similar results with 4volts and .25 amps thats 1watt.. no resistors were used.

in the test that is linked bellow I do have an Ecore inductor(its behind black box in video) and it does have a "gap" that at different frequency it starts to make a noise or 
ringing..
.

Nav's Reply 
Last year with bucking coils I measured 1200v per coil but was plagued with flyback but this was different.
My bifilar for test purposes was 300 turns of 48 gauge (i'm assuming its 48 gauge but it was wrapped on a wooden dowel and may be 40 gauge) , the inductors were 300 turns each, the primary was 100 turns. @ 4 volts the wire melted and was replaced by a 1000ohm resistor 0.6watt.

The bucking coils got red hot last year and the bifilar secondary was no different this time, there is a difference though, the bucking coils were on a transformer with no air gap and flew the voltage back into my pulsar and broke through a 1000v diode, but this time although I had a flyback diode there it doesn't come back at the primary.

If you have no gap in the core and you have an impedance mismatch the voltage comes back through the core, with a gap in the core it forces the voltage through stans diode into the inductors and through the load and around again. Its brilliant, the voltage cannot get back onto the core and flyback.

I measured 580v @ 8v into the primary but my meter is only capable of 600v so I stopped. Pinged it at 4Khz because these coils seemed to be resonant at around 8Khz.

Note from Nav 
I was thinking about what Matt was saying and the link he provided. Thane Heins who seems to have disappeared from the scene talked about high and low reluctance flux paths in transformer cores and he also had a resistor across one of the coils which was a dummy load. Similar patterns emerging.

The golden rule for Stans circuits is to allow all the coils to be inductive when they are purged by the primary but do not allow the secondary and chokes to be inductive when the primary current is switched off.

This circuit has massive potential and not just in a cell. For example, if you get rid of the cell and place a large capacitor in its place then have a voltage regulator in parallel to the cap into a load then the load will run for the cost of the resistor at R5 and the distributed cancelled linear inductance of the bifilar . Because of the air gap in the core, there is no induced back EMF into the primary and the resonant circuit will always be isolated from the primary input.

When Tesla built his bifilar coils he discovered that you can neutralise current and dissipate it as heat but he also discovered that the induced voltage field escapes the coil. What Stan has done is to allow a magnetic field to induce his coils in a core then once the primary has finished purging the VIC, the bifilar coil destroys the magnetic field and linear inductance and once again it escapes as heat but the voltage field is allowed to escape 90 degrees out of phase.

It cost the system the price of the heat and the resistor to take the voltage (which increased expotentially as a square law to the cancelled magnetic induction field) but when you spend the voltage it doesn't matter if you reintroduce current back into another circuit because it is isolated from the primary of the VIC. In other words you could stop the system and unplug the input voltage then uncouple the capacitor, walk down the street to your friends house and run a motor with it for an hour and use as much current as you like until the capacitor is empty.

about the core material of the transformer?
Is this a Ferrite core or iron plates...........Pulsing around 4 kHz seems to work the best with iron. What is the magnetic permeability of the core material and how long measures the air gap?

The enery, accumulated in a bifilar coil is 250.000 times greater compared to a normal coil so it's a very good idea to choose a bifilar setup for the secondary. 
Navs Reply
My core is laminated steel.

It is a good idea to use clear plastic like I did yesterday so you can continue to see the air gap, I took about a dozen pictures yesterday as I was making this device and this one is the primary being wound. The core is only 15mm wide by 5mm thick.

NOn Meyer Circuit Section here possible improve to monitoring circuit
Would it be possible to add a current limit in the circuit, hopefully for the sake of preventing frying things ahead of schedule?

I guess it could serve another purpose aswell, to let you know that you're close to the sweet spot if/when the current to the primary all the sudden goes down, which in turn then is indicated when the current limit LED fades away, provided of course that you set the current limit fairly low to start with,
which in that case of course means that the value of the current sensing resistor is set fairly high to start with as the bias of the PN transition in the current limiting transistor that way would be reached already at fairly low currents through the primary.

Another problem is to know what the max current to the primary should be allowed to be, which is then used for calculating the min value of the current limiting resistor.

I would think that the current limit would be just under the amperage rating of weakest the component in the system.If the primary wire is the weakest component then I would size the current limit 25 percent less than the wires insulation full amp rating.

The Focus and Key goal here is keep it very focused and simple

apply this study it to a cell replicate it and video it and post here

focus on keeping it simple

if you need help understanding it study it and ask questions, real ones ones where you have the pcs on bench in front of you

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