Stanley Meyr 9XB Stan HHo Hydrgen
Stanley Meyr 9XB Stan HHo Hydrgen

SCR Stanley Meyer

 

The optocoupler and scr are the heart of the meyer demo circuit can also be used on this frequency generator. the opto coupler is triggered by 5 volts from freqncy gen or a arduino or pc the scr is made to chop a rectified ac power source. such as a wall outlet, with a full wave rectifier on it. the board here has built in most of the componates to make it function 

opto coupler. yes the opto has a top speed. it is higher then 1khz

In Meyers Design the optocoupler and scr are the centre  of the meyer circuits he showed

 

SCR board will only work with the 8xa
know wonder I have been having problems with my 9xa board

What are you supposed to use the 9xa board with? 

just use one side or channel to work the scr board 
the 9xa can run a transistor, for double channels 
a scr is a silicone controlled rectifier 

a transistor will turn on and off any time you tell it to

 

You can't use an SCR to drive a step up transformer.

 

The SCR is used to drive the EC52 core choke coils. If you want to drive a step up transformer, you need a mosfet circuit or a transistor circuit. As I already stated, you can't drive the SCR trigger faster than 120hz.

If You are mixing two different circuits together , you can't do that. The SCR circuit will only work with the 8XA set up. 

 

 

A compliment to the 9xb and 9xa

 

  • SCR s4025l 25 amp

  • rectfier kbu808

  • diode 1n4007

  • diode t6a 6amp 1000 volt

  • resistor 100ohm 5 watt or bigger

  • opto coupler hiidi

  • 1/4 or 1/2 watt 220 ohm

 

compliment to the 9xb and 9xa

 

MAx Notes 

the input is for if you have a different signal gen. i use a different signal gen then the one we sell. i just connect it to that input. then i have the meyer frequency pulsing the scr. i just set my frequency gen to the meyer frequencies. also, if you had a signal gen like say a sound card for your computor.....you can send it to that input. or a hand operated switch even. 5 volts signal will make it fuction. put a 1k resistor instead of a 220 and trigger it with a 12 volt signal.

 

The scr is just a gate for your 120hz or 100hz....the house power is your frequency and the scr is the gate. the scr must see a pulse in order for it to chop the signal.

 

 

 

 

The variac is 60 hz ac. then rectified, it becomes 120 hz pulsed DC. the scr is designed to cut the 120 hz DC. so for the scr circuit, it is designed for one channel of that circuit to turn 120 hz on and off

 

You can't use an SCR to drive a step up transformer. The SCR is used to drive the EC52 core choke coils. If you want to drive a step up transformer, you need a mosfet circuit or a transistor circuit. As I already stated, you can't drive the SCR trigger faster than 120hz. You are mixing two different circuits together and you can't do that. The SCR circuit will only work with the 8XA set up.

 

Just use one side or channel to work the scr board the 9xa can run a transistor, for double channels a scr is a silicone controlled rectifier a transistor will turn on and off any time you tell it to

 

 

 

See class A http://share.pdfonline.com/5ae59a0009f44562b8c325f6045f67fb/commutation.pdf

 

You pulse the voltage behind the scr, you do not gate it. (that is your frequency) The Scr is the (gate.) Amp meter can go between the positive choke and the cell and the cell and negative choke. You do not need a rectified pulse from a bridge.A frequency will be determined based on cell capacitance and the choke sizing. You will be able to watch the square pulses and scr turning the circuit off, use 0-100vdc. It is not only a amp inhibiting circuit, it also is a resonate circuit. When you pull water apart you free electrons, you should be able to barely draw a load from the source, yet pull amps worth of electrons loose in the water and have little to no amps pulling thru the negative choke and is also why he used 0-100v.If done correctly in resonance, the power supply will only see a load in the milliamp range. The (threat) of current is what draws the water apart before the current can be used across the cell.So, the main idea behind this is high side current limiting to the choke. The square pulsed frequency ensures that the scr turns off, even if it wants to lock in.

 

 

 

NOTES

See class Ahttp://share.pdfonline.com/5ae59a0009f44562b8c325f6045f67fb/commutation.pdfYou pulse the voltage behind the scr, you do not gate it. (that is your frequency) The Scr is the (gate.) Amp meter can go between the positive choke and the cell and the cell and negative choke. You do not need a rectified pulse from a bridge.A frequency will be determined based on cell capacitance and the choke sizing. You will be able to watch the square pulses and scr turning the circuit off, use 0-100vdc. It is not only a amp inhibiting circuit, it also is a resonate circuit. When you pull water apart you free electrons, you should be able to barely draw a load from the source, yet pull amps worth of electrons loose in the water and have little to no amps pulling thru the negative choke and is also why he used 0-100v.If done correctly in resonance, the power supply will only see a load in the milliamp range. The (threat) of current is what draws the water apart before the current can be used across the cell.So, the main idea behind this is high side current limiting to the choke. The square pulsed frequency ensures that the scr turns off, even if it wants to lock in.valuable document. thanks!Meyer using the SCR in his early 8XA only showed that he understood how to create an oscillating circuit that was able to switch off the SCR as described in the pdf. whenever he had to switch without these oscillations he used transistors like 2N3055, the most powerful alternative at that time.today we have excellent substitutes called MosFets and there is no need to use SCRs any more for low power applications.

that mean"Meyer known Electronic very well".that is resonant circuit like he said.he didn't create the new word for calling circuit.SCR is popular in 80s-90s.thanks for PDF,Hardkrome.great find.geenee

 

Places to Buy SCR in Varying Voltages 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250277119863?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Stan mentions multiple times in his writings the convenience of not just controlling the pulse width but also the "voltage amplitude"Now in Stans info we find references to "variable voltage amplitude" yet it’s usually in fixed positions in his diagrams. (Selector switch, or variac manual control etc).What do you guys think of trying to apply a varying voltage during a repetitive pulse train?Usually we only apply a fixed voltage pulse. And if we get it right this charges the cell.Now imagine a step increasing voltage amplitude pulse. During step charging our cell. Acording to stan it should enhance the polarization process.Let me know what you guys think, should i follow this rabbit?In the video bellow I attempt to explain how to achieve this electronically using a sequential circuit to trigger multiple SCR gates sequentially during repetitive pulse trains.

 

Meter note 

I have a LED Digital Panel Frequency Meter Range: 0 ~ 9999Hz 
I was thinking of putting it on the SCR to give a reading of the frequency I am looking for and to make sure I have the 120hz. 
Would it be better to put the connection at the cell after the inductor? 
What is your suggestion?


is it a ac freq meter? 
the frequency meters will not read the frequency correctly if the frequency has a gate applied. 
the house power will be 50 to 60 hz ac wich converts to 100 to 120 hz dc pulsed, it will not change. 

if you have a good o'scope, it will show the frequencies 

Note the Pic on left is not correct 

 

Note From MAx 

no 

maybe you need to buy a shunt with that amp meter? did it come with one? 



when we make boards, we often have multiple uses for one board. 
everyone wants to try meyer boards, so we try to make them simple, wire here or there 

the input is for if you have a different signal gen. i use a different signal gen then the one we sell. i just connect it to that input. then i have the meyer frequency pulsing the scr. i just set my frequency gen to the meyer frequencies. 

also, if you had a signal gen like say a sound card for your computor.....you can send it to that input. or a hand operated switch even. 

5 volts signal will make it fuction. put a 1k resistor instead of a 220 and trigger it with a 12 volt signal..........

Non Meyer Switch Options 

The optocoupler and scr are the heart of the meyer demo circuit 

In your youtube videos you put 
a SCR with a diferent case...i'm asking 
because where i live these kind of 
electronics does not exist. 
Wich is the comercial code of SCR? Or how 
Can i order it if i go to a radioshack?

 

=============

they come in different cases. there will be 3 pin outs 
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0... 

find one 10 to 20 amps, and a heat sink. 

the ones i use are 20 amp, 400 volts i think. 
if you got the scr board from me. look up the number listed on the scr pinout. find the pin out of that scr, and match it to the one you are buying. 
the scr just goes off when the voltage ripples 

scr is silicone controlled rectifier 
its just a diode that comes on when you tell it to 

also check the turn on voltage to match the one i listed
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=========

i shyed away from this for a while..you have cleared up so much for me. linear transmissions, Magnetic flip-flops, BiASING hemholts layers! this is parametrics you know, like a child on a swing, which if she times her kicks right .. the sky is the limit u no. besides the length of the chain of corse  . I have two question tho , in order to make gas "on demand" like, 5 gph consumption rates... how do i ask... i can trust seeing water between two adjustable plates, no prob... The ERxxx is coaxial tho. pos on the outer electrode, neg crosses over and touches the inner electrode....BUT does that "neg" bottom choke touch outer pos electrode as well?? if we do this itz a short yes, but its cool cuz were only messing with FIELDS yes? i mean,, couldent i just take the other end of my B+ & B- and place it across my adjustable plates ? let energy bounce between the two vessles? i mean,, transmitt, in series...recieve in parrralell , use a loop to couple the regeneratave feedback energy into a Cavity?? And please one more question, what do AM coupling loops have to do with us? thanks again

=====================================

in series, the neg wire goes to the next tube sets pos wire. like wirering capacitors in series. as you do, the capacitance goes down. you also have the resistance of the water. it is a short with electrolyte in the water. with no electrolyte, you pulse it in such away that there is no short. stan says that in his papers. 

should be able to use the adjustable plates, i will assemble that soon 

AM coupling..............most likely the process is like an AM transmission.

the 9xa was designed by stan for a gate and a main frequency to drive a transistor. the scr is as explained in detail a chopping circuit for mains rectified signals. used in the 8xa display circuit

==========================

so why make the 9XA if you aren't going to use the gating frequency? 
doesn't Stan say that he uses a gated pulse train? 
this board is your design. 
I would think you'd know how to connect it so the output is the gated pulse

========================

the design is stan meyers, it is for a transistor 
half of it will work for the scr, as described. a scr is not a transistor 

the scr makes the gate for rectified house voltage as stan designed. each one is stans design, as described exactly

=========================

the board is marked for series connection to the transistor
=======================

 9XB 
I don’t know why you use a 9XB, when it has no gate. 
I don’t know how many patent pictures I have seen with 
the pulse, pulse, pulse, gate ,and then pulse, pulse, pulse etc. 
the 9XA is your design, your board,

 

I would think that you would know 
how to connect it so as to get the gated pulse train. 
you show a lot in your videos,

 

but without a concise schematic 
and the values you are using and the frequency you are at in 
resonance. 

====================================

Yes, it is printed on the board, then why do you show me a 9XB connection?

==================================

a scr does not make a pulse. you can not use a scr that way. 

you need a transistor to make a pulse 
a scr is not a transistor. 

if you want a 9xb, just use half the 9xa to fire the scr, then you have a 9xb, for the 8xa circuit. 

the 9xa and the 9xb are stan meyers design. they do what they did for stan. 

if you want to fire a transistor, then you need a transistor 

this thread clearly shows how the 8xa funtions with the scr circuit

================================

nowhere in any of these last posts did you explain how to connect the 9XA (that has two oscillators) to a scr or transistor to get a gated pulse train. 
do you know how?

===============================

ou asked me how to hook up the scr. 
the question was plainly answered. 

the transistor question was already answered here 
http://irondmax.com/irondmax/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=893&posts=14&start=1

you just put optocouplers in series as they are marked 

and mike, you are being a little rude. in case you dont realize that. 

a scr is not a transistor, you asked how to connect the scr. and i told you how. this thread also has in depth details on the scr. scr stands for silicone rectifier. its a diode with a on switch.
-----

 



you can wire it like you posted here for a transistor. and wire it like the 2n3055 pic i posted in responce to your 2n3055 question. 
pin 4,5 and 6 are a NPN transistor on the optocoupler. 

6 is the top pin on the right, not connected.........base of the optocoupler transistor. 

pin 4 goes in the direction of ground, to the base of the 2n3055. 

pin 5 in the middle is from the positive side of the circuit 

none of which has anything to do with a SCR 

the SCR is the gate for 120hz rectified house power, as shown in this thread. for the scr you just use one side of the 9xa as shown earlier

 

================================

As I try to run my SCR diode, I have some questions about it, but before please tell me if I understand the SCR driver functionning...

 1 - KBU808 rectify the main AC power from the variac or something else from 24V up to 36V.

 2 - Now, power is available to supply SCR diode (AC or DC power, I don't know yet, but a fully positive/unipolar rise and fall power to run the SCR diode) and H11D1 optocoupler (via a 100K resistor )

 3 - The H11D1 is triggered by Signal 2 (square wave with eventually gatting ΠΠΠ__ΠΠΠ__)

 4 - Signal 1 is now available from H11D1 to trigger the SCR diode. Signal 1 is not a square wave but a rise and fall wave with eventually gatting ∩∩∩__∩∩∩__.

 5 - The 6 Amp 1000V diode is there to prevent from back emf from the VIC.

Questions :

- The rise and fall wave needed to run the SCR diode is needed on the gate pin or on the anode pin or on both of them?

- What is for the 1N4007 diode on the schematics ?

 

================================

∩∩∩___∩∩∩___ 

that is what rectified AC looks like___ being ground ∩∩∩ being 120 hz. 60 hz AC retified becomes 120 hz pulsed DC 

that setup with the parts i listed can handle over 220 volts 

the 8xa circuit as designed by meyer is a 50% duty cycle as a gate to the 120hz 

the 1000 volt diode keeps the positive pulse from being BEMF, and set up stans VIC circuit 

the 1n4007 is a protection diode for the scr

=================================

see if this thread explains your questions 
http://irondmax.com/irondmax/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=759&posts=23&start=1

the 36 volt transformer picture was just a minimum voltage suggestion. meyer used a 120 volt 5 amp powerstat variac(auto transformer)

 

 

================

 read this topic several times yet, each time with a new understanding (beter ?) but there is lot of informations here and elsewhere and amalgams and misunderstandings are easy to make.

So, if I understand the situation in this circuit :

- Frequency is fixed --> 2 x 60 Hz = 120 Hz (in North America) ; 2 x 50 Hz = 100 Hz (in Europe)

- the resonance of the circuit is obtained by setting up the gate's frequency duty cycle.

- the variable voltage amplitude of the wave form just give more power when resonance is reached.

 

So if I want to use a SCR diode, I "just" need a 50% duty cycle gate signal with adjustable frequency to trigger the optocoupler and then the SCR diode.

I made a mistake (one more) thinking that the triggering signal must be as in Lawton circuit, 2 stages (1 for variable "high" frequency and 1 for the gate "low" frequency) and then pulsed in power transistor. But as you said it before... a SCR diode is not a power transistor.

=====================

So, I have started to build my SCR driver on a "proto board". Not finished yet because some components are missing, but I've checked the the bridge rectifier and it seems that something goes wrong...

Here are the scope shot I have made just out of KBU808

As I was testing my circuit, my settings was as follow :

1 - A step down transformer 220V/18V  ( a cordless charger that deliver 20V in fact)

2 - A "Variac" like repaired 0 to 240V . With the transformer above, I get 0 to 26V.

3 - Then my SCR circuit. The probe connected at the ouput of the bridge rectifier KBU808.

 

The 1st picture is with 18V input the SCR board. The 2nd picture is with 26 V input. 

The result is better with 26V but seems to me dirty. Is this really a problem ? Do I need a bigger step down transformer like 220V/110V ?

- The rise and fall wave needed to run the SCR diode is needed on the gate pin or on the anode pin or on both of them?

 

Because I haven't yet a 100Ω 5W resistor, I've tried to trigger my SCR with 5V DC (5V DC in the optocoupler, then in the SCR). But with no success.

So I think the answer was "on both of them". In fact it was allready written black on white on Meyer's pattent on wich SCRis clearly triggered by a unipolar waveform. (I sometimes have a strong ability not to see certain things  )

 

I still have a question about the 100 Ω 5W resistor. I have a bunch of resistors (some from electronic scrap board), several are 100 Ω but how do I know that it is a 5W resistor ? (probably a stupid question... but I don't want to do something stupid with electric components  ) if you have 10x 10ohms resistors you can connect in serie to give an 100ohms 2,5W. 

But scarou i don't understand what are you doing ? what's look like your circuit? 

In this thread, I'm studying the SCR circuit of the 8XA. I know, without having experienced it myself at the moment, there are several ways to achieve a resonant cavity process.

Using a SCR diode with the fixed wall frequency (frequency out of the general power distribution network 60 Hz in North America. 50 Hz in Europe) and a 50% Duty Cycle variable frequency signal for gating is one way (only the beginning of this way...)

So 1st I want to be able to trigger a SCR diode and knowing how the SCR driver board works and why it is made like this. So testing, making mistakes, ask questions, make corrections, testing again ... ... and therefore learn.

So I'm trying to make this thing

I got a bunch of transformers for few € yersterday. I hope that, in line with my variac, it will help me to make the circuit fonctionning.

 

There is lot of informations on internet about Stanley MEYER work and be able to sort them to make something usefull need to be rigorous and exhaustive.

I think it is like starting a puzzle. You have to find corners and borders to begin and then you will have an overview of the project.

"Playing with" a circuit board created by someone else can be fun, tricky or discouraging. The only way I know to become proficient is to complete all the stages one by one. The only way I know to stay motivated is to learn something at each step. It's a bit like building a 3D printer. If you are not prepared to get your "hands dirty" and learning, you'll get stopped very soon and you will be sentenced to only print bad keychain, or abandon the project altogether.

It doesn't work ? It's okay ! Succeed in understanding why it doesn't work is much more important for the future (successfully correct the problem is also of course  )

The next step will be to experience the resonance effect on a circuit (transformer, RLC circuit ...) not to produce bubbles, but to understand the resonance effect and influence ofits parameters. (I do not know where to start this step but I rely on the community to direct me  )

Ok ok, i ask this question for know where you are...? and you seems like be on the good way. 
So the output of your bridge rectifier is a lit bit dirty but it's so maybe your scope. Try to visualize the output of a transformer 230v / 12v without the bridge rectifier just for you give an idea of capacities of your oscilloscope. 
Before experienced try your scope with known signals. 

And don't forget to add a 100 ohm resistor. .

 

==========================================

sometimes, i have found you must reverse your wire connection. the AC from the wall, i mean. reverse your wires and see if the signal is cleaner

I've got problems to probe the SCR circuit...  

When I plug the SCR board to the variac (average 1.4 V at the minimum output) I get arround 5 V DC once rectified by the board. My voltmeter is hoocked at the direct output of the bridge rectifier (KBU 808).

If I hoock the ground of my scope probe to the negative, I get more than 61V !!! 

 

 If I hoock only the probe of the scope, I get more than 24 V.

If I hoock the probe and it's ground, I get more than 36 V ...

 

either I discovered an unexpected source of energy  ... or more likely something goes wrong somewhere but I don't understand what !? 
 

 

why are you still messing around with the SCR board? there is no way to connect it 
to the 9XA board so that you can get the gated pulse train. 

 

===============================================================

sometimes I need time to do things, but I'm not one to easily give up when it gets stuck before having clearly identified the reason why it gets stuck and renouncing knowingwhy. 

I think that what need the SCR board is on one side a variable sine wave from the wall and on the other side a simple gated signal with a variable duty cycle. The 9XA have 2 signals generator. I think it's easy to connect the "100 Ω resistor outuput" of the SCR board to the input B ("resistor" ) of the 9XA. And connect the output B ("Gate" ) of the 9XA to the input signal 1 of the SCR board to trigger the SCR component.

May be there is no way to produce easily bubles in this way, but I think that the best I do in this way, the more I learn.

For now, the reason I allready know that I will not have bubles in this way are :

- The gate signal is not duty cycle adjustable.

- As I know that the resonnance is function of frequency, inductance and capacitance of the circuit, if the frequency is fixed, that mean that the inductance and the capacitance of the circuit have to be "already fine tuned" to resonnate with the wall frequency. ... I am very far from that configuration I'm afraid...

But ... I think that if S. MEYER choose this circuit for demonstration, it was beacause it was a simplified version of its system with specifc parameters and so it was not so easy to duplicate

 Anyway, studing this circuit and it's limits is a great source of knowledge and sometimes it starts with really banal stuff for some. "Why I can not do a simple reliable measure on this circuit"

yes, the 8xa is the best way to learn how meyers circuits work. all of his work is a pulse train with a gate. the 8xa is the simplist way to show it and get everyone to understand it. 

check your variac. inside the variac, it should have a ground wire, mounted to the chassy, then its the round termanal to the wall. then check the blade terminals. the white wire from the wall is the return power which is shared ground in the fuse box. the black wire is your hot wire from the fuse box. the hot wire will go through the variac and should be measured with the positive lead of your scope. 

if for some reason the power in or out of your variac is back, or the ground is missing, you get voltage measurements that are like that. 

if your varic is 220V 3 wire..........if you loose ground, your voltage will show like that. 

i have found that some multi meters can not deal with the pulse train or high frequency of meyers circuitry, some thing melts inside, and they do that. sometimes its a low battery in the meter. i ended up buying a 80 dollar meter. called the manufacturer, they garinteed it would work. it still works, but not as good as it did. 

i have always said, the 8xa is the way to learn how the meyer tech works.

My SCR circuit is triggering !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WSM-mUEBcQ

 ... a small step for sure... but a step ! 

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! 

GOOD WORK BUDDY

=========================

Thanks Max for this encouragement 

Here after is what I have understood until now on how to build a pulse train with SCR circuit and 9XA board.

1 - Here is the main power signal that I get from the wall (50 Hz in france or 60 Hz in North America).

===========================

 

2 - Here is the signal once rectified by bridge rectifier (KBU 808 for example). The 50Hz from the wall become a 100 Hz (120 Hz) UNIPOLAR VOLTAGE WAVEFORM

3 - Here is a 50 % DUTY CYCLE signal frequency that I get from A output of the 9XA board.

 - Here is a 50 % DUTY CYCLE signal frequency that I get from B output of the 9XA board. Main frequency 3 higher than gate frequency 4.

5 - Here is the main frequency 3 combined with the gate frequency 4. 

Both ouptut A and B have 2 pins respectively tagged "resistor" for power input of the optocoupler and "gate" for the output of the optocoupler. In order to combine those signals, I have wired "gate" pin B to "resistor" pin A (the output of gate signal B is the input of freq signal A -->brown wire)

The red wire is the power source from the 100 Ω 5 W resistor of the SCR board. 

The yellow wire is the triggering signal to the signal 1 input of the SCR board.

 6 - Not tested yet because my actual scope don't allow me this measure ... but soon I'll do !

As the gate signal 4 frequency (50% duty cycle !) is adjustable, it is now possible to tune this signal to overlap the rectified wall frequency (might be at 100Hz (or 120 Hz)).

 7 - Not tested yet because my actual scope don't allow me this measure ... but soon I'll do !

The result is a 100 Hz signal now turned ON and OFF by the SCR diode, itself triggered by our signal 5 as here under

you do not believe it is strongly similar to a VARIABLE AMPLITUDE GATED UNIPOLAR PULSE-FREQUENCY ?

 

So... next step is of course to check it (as soon as I get my new scope  ) and then to pulse it into a coil...

===================

After the theory, here are my tests 

Step 2 - Here is the wall signal once rectified 100 Hz (blue trace)

======================

Steps 3 & 4 - Blue trace is the signal frequency from A output of the 9XA board. Yellow trace is the gate frequence signal from B output of the 9XA board. (both signals before optocouplers)

Step 5 - Both signal combined with optocouplers (Actually not entirely checked because as my USB scope can't probe the outgoing signal when the SCR board is hooked, I had to replace the incoming unipolar voltage waveform from the SCR board by a continuous signal from a small step down DC transformer. So the real waveform might be slightly different, but we can already check that both signals can be combined via optocouplers)

Step 6 - The gate frequency is adjustable, so it might be possible to overlap the 100 Hz unipolar voltage waveform.

 

Next steps will have to wait my new scope...

 

=========================================

yeah what i realized is that no matter ur gate frequency... ur gonna get full wave rectified dc pulses across the cell.... 

dc pulses into the scr means the rate of voltage rise is gonna be different depending on when the gate is allowing current to flow.... u might get very little Vrise because ur at a trough..... 

different Vrises means faster current changes means faster voltage rises.. 

stan says he can change the rate of gas production by fucking with the spacing..... 

in birth of a new technology stan says the plates act like a capacitor during pulsing operation... 

i've done a bit of research, i cant find anything on pulsed dc electrode polerization or pulse dc electrode kinetics.... 

though i have found some interesting stuff on non thermal plasma 

stan is such a fucker calling it a resonant cavity and a waveguide.... using fucking metal plates and inductors...... i watched a seminar with george merkel, he says he built acceleraters for a couple hundred bucks... this was after he worked on cold fusion... its safe to say thers a common research thread in this type of high technology 

i'm going back to the drawing board... im starting on the toroidal patent... the one francis did.... 

i need to step up my workmanship, too many wires in my current setup, stray capacities up the asshole 

stans hydrogen gas gun is basically a low grade particle beam.... that u can build for less than 1000 if u had the parameters... 

stanley meyer was a fucking sage..... 

Scarou if you look picture you can this how the scr work's. 

In red your trigger signal (50% dutycycle with gate or other...) 
In bleu your 100Hz rectifier (50hz on my picture but it's the same) 
In green is the signal of the SCR 

SCR need to have a negative voltage or a low amperage to turn off. 
With your control signal you will only get an unipolar pulse train exactly the same as your 100Hz rectifier signal.

========================================

Hi pouic,

I can't verify this by my own today, but I think you are right. When I was able to trigger my SCR board , it was at a very low frequency and the signal used as input for optocoupler was the 100 Hz rectified signal and this signal "carry" a "0" level every 0.01 second. So the SCR was triggered ON and OFF.

If we need a higher frequency, we need to put the trigger to a "0" level (or a negative voltage) each OFF TIME of the pulse triggering circuit. 

">I was able to trigger my SCR board , it was at a very low frequency and the signal used as input for optocoupler was the 100 Hz rectified signal and this signal "carry" a "0" level every 0.01 second. So the SCR was triggered ON and OFF.

 

If we need a higher frequency, we need to put the trigger to a "0" level (or a negative voltage) each OFF TIME of the pulse triggering circuit. 

================================

If we need a higher frequency, we need to put the trigger to a "0" level (or a negative voltage) each OFF TIME of the pulse triggering circuit. 

 

 

 

Scarou the SCR circuit with 8XA, 9XB and other... is made to work originaly at 120Hz (in US, 100Hz in EU) just with a gate time it's all.

In this circuit you canno't change the main frequency and you don't need to have an higher frequency.

Do you have look Max's videos ?

 Just in adding a gate time you reduce amp flow and when you coupled a bifilar coil amp reduce again.    

============================

 

Scarou the SCR circuit with 8XA, 9XB and other... is made to work originaly at 120Hz (in US, 100Hz in EU) just with a gate time it's all.

In this circuit you canno't change the main frequency and you don't need to have an higher frequency.

Do you have look Max's videos ?

 Just in adding a gate time you reduce amp flow and when you coupled a bifilar coil amp reduce again.    

 

 

 it was part of what I had in mind when I wrote

 

scarou - 2015-08-29 9:21 PM (#11173 - in reply to #242)

 

As I know that the resonnance is function of frequency, inductance and capacitance of the circuit, if the frequency is fixed, that mean that the inductance and the capacitance of the circuit have to be "already fine tuned" to resonnate with the wall frequency. ... I am very far from that configuration I'm afraid...

But ... I think that if S. MEYER choose this circuit for demonstration, it was beacause it was a simplified version of its system with specifc parameters and so it was not so easy to duplicate

 

 

 You are right again. Even if the way to make a pulse train is valuable (I still have to test it) it can't be the right way to operate with the SCR diode for the reason you have clearly exposed above.

I think that at this point, I will not be able to go further until I make real experiments to see how react the circuit with the elements I have. I don't know if the bifilar coil and the cell I have made are able to work together or if I have to make specific coil and cell to hit resonance.

Anyway... thanks for helping me in learning

==============================

 

It works !!!

I record a video and I upload it as soon as possible !!!

I'm afraid that these are just bubles from a conventionnal electrolyse...  I figure out that the 2nd wire of my coil wasn't properly connected...

Very dispointed by these bubles because it's only tap water without any additive and I did not think there would be bubles at this voltage level.

I have to study this to understand the influence of each component in the circuit (SCR board, bifilar coil, E core, cell)

So back to the workbench...

Finally... YES IT WORKS !!!

My SCR board is triggered by my 9XA.

 

My pulse train is 100 Hz gated every 10 Hz. Blue trace is probe each side of the cell. Yellow trace is probe at the output of the 9XA board. All ground are common.

It took me quite testing to achieve operating the circuit and to measure signals. It is because the grounds of my scope's probe are common I discovered that two point of my circuit have to be bypassed so that the scr is triggered (see Additionnal bypass here under).

Result is "good amount" of bubles and a amp consumption limited to 1.5 A for average 30 V out of the variac.

Unfortunately, my variac is limited to 2 Amp max so I can not test with a bigger tension for now.

Video of all of that will come ASAP but for now... need to sleep...    

In fact, this additional cable just bypass the second winding wire of my coil. When I was playing with my coil during the 1st test, I remember that increasing the gap of the coil made a similar effect. So I decided to test the influence of the air gap variation in the inductance of my coil. I have adapted the core housing to make tha gap "easy tunable"

then, I have measured the capacitance of my cell (tryed to do this for the entire circuit from scr output but with a fluctuating result inconclusive)

.

Cell capacitance : ≈ 377 µF

 

As I know (and I have verified it) that the frequency is 100 Hz,

 

Using the resonnant frequency calculator   give a value of 6.7 mH for the coil. So I have tuned the gap until to get 6.7 mH for all of the two coils.

 

http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm

 

Now my circuit is pulsing without additional bypass.

 

It might be a good way to easily tune the inductance of a circuit. If somebody is interrested in that, I will post the drawing on thingiverse. 

So here are my new settings. 

 

very good work buddy. yes, when you work on it, you can figure much more out. much better then just discussing it 

good work, and keep it up

 

================

stan used a 5 amp variac for this circuit
 

======================

carou, 

Why do you need to put a step down isolating transformer between your wall socket and your variac? 
Is it because your variac only operates at an input voltage of 115V or is there another reason which enhances the way your whole circuit works and if so what is the effect of using one? 
 

==========================

My isolating transformer output 115 V or 230 V AC.

My variac works with 230 V and can output 0 to 250 V (the knob is graduated from 0 to 250).

The reason I choose to put only 115 V into my variac is to get 2 x more precision when turning the knob. It's also the reason why I put a voltmeter on the output of the variac, it allows me to know "precisely" (it's a cheap volmeter) the output voltage.

=======================

my 9XA is working great, I have a totem pole mosfet driver circuit that works good. 
I have a 10 amp variac, that can put out 140V, my coils (primary/secondary/C1&C2) are to your specification, 
and the cell that you gave me, 

trigger and stop thryistor

Hi I want make 8xa circuit with my friend. but we couldnt understnad that after trigger scr how can it be stop and trigger again. because you know after trigger scr it works continously .but in circuit we must generete pulse. on -off. Also why meyer used ecr thrystor c38m. not any mosfet.
 thanks:) or my question is wrong

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/power/thyristor-circuit.html

"But remember though that once a Thyristor starts to conduct it continues to conduct even with no Gate signal, until the Anode current decreases below the devices holding current, (IH) and below this value it automatically turns-“OFF”. Then unlike bipolar transistors and FET’s, thyristors cannot be used for amplification or controlled switching."

So you need to get the gate current lower enough.It seems you can find SCRs sensitive enough to react to light even, so you got many options

Thyristor Circuit

Thyristors are high-speed solid-state devices which can be used to control motors, heaters and lamps

In the previous tutorial we looked at the basic construction and operation of the Silicon Controlled Rectifier more commonly known as a Thyristor. This time we will look at how we can use the thyristor and thyristor switching circuits to control much larger loads such as lamps, motors, or heaters etc.

We said previously that in order to get the Thyristor to turn-“ON” we need to inject a small trigger pulse of current (not a continuous current) into the Gate, (G) terminal when the thyristor is in its forward direction, that is the Anode, (A) is positive with respect to the Cathode, (K), for regenerative latching to occur.

 

Typical Thyristor

Generally, this trigger pulse need only be of a few micro-seconds in duration but the longer the Gate pulse is applied the faster the internal avalanche breakdown occurs and the faster the turn-“ON” time of the thyristor, but the maximum Gate current must not be exceeded. Once triggered and fully conducting, the voltage drop across the thyristor, Anode to Cathode, is reasonably constant at about 1.0V for all values of Anode current up to its rated value.

But remember though that once a Thyristor starts to conduct it continues to conduct even with no Gate signal, until the Anode current decreases below the devices holding current, (IH) and below this value it automatically turns-“OFF”. Then unlike bipolar transistors and FET’s, thyristors cannot be used for amplification or controlled switching.

Thyristors are semiconductor devices that are specifically designed for use in high-power switching applications and do not have the ability of an amplifier. Thyristors can operate only in a switching mode, acting like either an open or closed switch. Once triggered into conduction by its gate terminal, a thyristor will remain conducting (passing current) always. Therefore in DC circuits and some highly inductive AC circuits the current has to be artificially reduced by a separate switch or turn off circuit.

DC Thyristor Circuit

When connected to a direct current DC supply, the thyristor can be used as a DC switch to control larger DC currents and loads. When using the Thyristor as a switch it behaves like an electronic latch because once activated it remains in the “ON” state until manually reset. Consider the DC thyristor circuit below.

DC Thyristor Switching Circuit

This simple “on-off” thyristor firing circuit uses the thyristor as a switch to control a lamp, but it could also be used as an on-off control circuit for a motor, heater or some other such DC load.

 

The thyristor is forward biased and is triggered into conduction by briefly closing the normally-open “ON” push button, S1 which connects the Gate terminal to the DC supply via the Gate resistor, RG thus allowing current to flow into the Gate. If the value of RG is set too high with respect to the supply voltage, the thyristor may not trigger.

Once the circuit has been turned-“ON”, it self latches and stays “ON” even when the push button is released providing the load current is more than the thyristors latching current. Additional operations of push button, S1 will have no effect on the circuits state as once “latched” the Gate looses all control. The thyristor is now turned fully “ON” (conducting) allowing full load circuit current to flow through the device in the forward direction and back to the battery supply.

One of the main advantages of using a thyristor as a switch in a DC circuit is that it has a very high current gain. The thyristor is a current operated device because a small Gate current can control a much larger Anode current.

The Gate-cathode resistor RGK is generally included to reduce the Gate’s sensitivity and increase its dv/dt capability thus preventing false triggering of the device.

As the thyristor has self latched into the “ON” state, the circuit can only be reset by interrupting the power supply and reducing the Anode current to below the thyristors minimum holding current (IH) value.

Opening the normally-closed “OFF” push button, S2 breaks the circuit, reducing the circuit current flowing through the Thyristor to zero, thus forcing it to turn “OFF” until the application again of another Gate signal.

However, one of the disadvantages of this DC thyristor circuit design is that the mechanical normally-closed “OFF” switch S2 needs to be big enough to handle the circuit power flowing through both the thyristor and the lamp when the contacts are opened. If this is the case we could just replace the thyristor with a large mechanical switch.

 

One way to overcome this problem and reduce the need for a larger more robust “OFF” switch is to connect the switch in parallel with the thyristor as shown.

Alternative DC Thyristor Circuit

Here the thyristor switch receives the required terminal voltage and Gate pulse signal as before but the larger normally-closed switch of the previous circuit has be replaced by a smaller normally-open switch in parallel with the thyristor. Activation of switch S2 momentarily applies a short circuit between the thyristors Anode and Cathode stopping the device from conducting by reducing the holding current to below its minimum value.

AC Thyristor Circuit

When connected to an alternating current AC supply, the thyristor behaves differently from the previous DC connected circuit. This is because AC power reverses polarity periodically and therefore any thyristor used in an AC circuit will automatically be reverse-biased causing it to turn-“OFF” during one-half of each cycle. Consider the AC thyristor circuit below.

AC Thyristor Circuit

The above thyristor firing circuit is similar in design to the DC SCR circuit except for the omission of an additional “OFF” switch and the inclusion of diode D1 which prevents reverse bias being applied to the Gate. During the positive half-cycle of the sinusoidal waveform, the device is forward biased but with switch S1 open, zero gate current is applied to the thyristor and it remains “OFF”. On the negative half-cycle, the device is reverse biased and will remain “OFF” regardless of the condition of switch S1.

If switch S1 is closed, at the beginning of each positive half-cycle the thyristor is fully “OFF” but shortly after there will be sufficient positive trigger voltage and therefore current present at the Gate to turn the thyristor and the lamp “ON”.

The thyristor is now latched-“ON” for the duration of the positive half-cycle and will automatically turn “OFF” again when the positive half-cycle ends and the Anode current falls below the holding current value.

During the next negative half-cycle the device is fully “OFF” anyway until the following positive half-cycle when the process repeats itself and the thyristor conducts again as long as the switch is closed.

Then in this condition the lamp will receive only half of the available power from the AC source as the thyristor acts like a rectifying diode, and conducts current only during the positive half-cycles when it is forward biased.

 

The thyristor continues to supply half power to the lamp until the switch is opened.

If it were possible to rapidly turn switch S1 ON and OFF, so that the thyristor received its Gate signal at the “peak” (90o) point of each positive half-cycle, the device would only conduct for one half of the positive half-cycle.

 

In other words, conduction would only take place during one-half of one-half of a sine wave and this condition would cause the lamp to receive “one-fourth” or a quarter of the total power available from the AC source.

 

By accurately varying the timing relationship between the Gate pulse and the positive half-cycle, the Thyristor could be made to supply any percentage of power desired to the load, between 0% and 50%. Obviously, using this circuit configuration it cannot supply more than 50% power to the lamp, because it cannot conduct during the negative half-cycles when it is reverse biased. Consider the circuit below.

Half Wave Phase Control

 

Phase control is the most common form of thyristor AC power control and a basic AC phase-control circuit can be constructed as shown above. Here the thyristors Gate voltage is derived from the RC charging circuit via the trigger diode, D1.

During the positive half-cycle when the thyristor is forward biased, capacitor, C charges up via resistor R1 following the AC supply voltage.

 

The Gate is activated only when the voltage at point A has risen enough to cause the trigger diode D1, to conduct and the capacitor discharges into the Gate of the thyristor turning it “ON”. The time duration in the positive half of the cycle at which conduction starts is controlled by RC time constant set by the variable resistor, R1

Increasing the value of R1 has the effect of delaying the triggering voltage and current supplied to the thyristors Gate which in turn causes a lag in the devices conduction time.

 

As a result, the fraction of the half-cycle over which the device conducts can be controlled between 0 and 180o, which means that the average power dissipated by the lamp can be adjusted.

 

However, the thyristor is a unidirectional device so only a maximum of 50% power can be supplied during each positive half-cycle.

There are a variety of ways to achieve 100% full-wave AC control using “thyristors”. One way is to include a single thyristor within a diode bridge rectifier circuit which converts AC to a unidirectional current through the thyristor while the more common method is to use two thyristors connected in inverse parallel.

 

A more practical approach is to use a single

 

Triac as this device can be triggered in both directions, therefore making them suitable for AC switching applications.

Stanley Meyer has a Dual Variac Box in that box he changed to a  heat sinked ssr solid state relay 

Element14: DC60S3 -  SOLID STATE RELAY

 

We Have these Available  $45 

 

 Also a H Bridge Can be used 

 

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