YEs this is Rare Data and Knowledge suggest you back up all of it immediately and share it to others.
WHAT IS THE VIC CIRCUIT ?
It produces the modulated voltage & frequency and is the driver for the vic coils
with a scanning circuit and locking circuit. it is what makes the vic system
work and keep working to generae the Gas from wet cell electrolyzer with higher yeild than normal electrolysis and runs in resonance at a certain frequency.
The VIC transformer performs multiple functions.
1. voltage stepup by transformer action
2. impedance matching
3. amp inhibition
Effectively, it aids transfer energy to the water capacitor and keeping the voltage up (escaping into the return circuit) until the dissociation action kicks in by charge separation. Its very difficult to articulate this without pictures.
The vic driver circuit produces precision square wave with a 50%duty cycle as the main frequency, and it has a precision adjustable gate which adjusts the unipolar pulse train on time and the gate off time, also there is a variable voltage.
Included in this Circuit is a transformer arrangement SEE VIC BOBBINS with chokes on a common ferrite core.
The Vic Coils are tune to match the Cell style and resistance and capacitance in each case.
NOte If you want to use the meyer circuits, then the circuit has to match the tube set of that circuit. You can not just take a circuit from the patent and just use any tube set you want on it. it does not work that way.
Most likely if you add tube sets, the voltage is devided by each set. however, that may change once the process takes over.
the only way to experiment with meyers stuff is to build the entire system.
Say the 8xa......circuit, inductor, full tube set and adjustable plate set........you will not get the right reaction with 2 small plates. say the 9 tube set was 5uf, the big plate set was 9uf....your little plates are 2pf........ you will not get the correct reaction with 2pf.
There is a Method to each Patent they are not interchangable.
now take the resonate cavity..............that vic resonates with that tube set............10 tube sets.........it will not resonate with the big tube set or 1 single cell . it has to be tube pairs, 2 tubes inner outer 1 wired +/- inner outter and one wired -+ inner outter to balance reistant load to match coils on core.
Typically a gapped core serves the purpose of increasing reluctance. In the VIC design having multiple windings dedicated to specific sides of the core, I imagine there is a need for flux separation between these two halves. However, any gap in the core increases the reluctance of each halve as well as the complete core. The windings that are together on each halve should have stronger coupling, but without being able to see where these are and their polarity, it is a little difficult to describe the mode of operation.
Seems to me that the gap could at least in part be used for balancing the resonance between the 2 chokes and the water cell.
Modern PPL Digital radio use auto phase lock loop to find channels or resonance. not that as the pick up coil be doin that.on one gap on one side of core only.
take the big bobbin, it is made to resonate with the injector chamber.......
it will not work with the other tube sets
This is important to understand from the start.You have to do exactly what meyer did, and 1 tube set will not work. the only place meyer used one tube set is in the injector.
You will need a frequency generator that is capable of doing gating. If it does not do gating your wasting your time.
Next you will need a fast switching Transistor capable of switching in the Khz range and handle several amps to turn the primary of the transformer on and off just like a switch and a few other parts on the primary side. When your switching the power from your source to the primary, it takes a certain amount of time (T1) to fill the primary inductor to the level of the source voltage.
You need to be able to measure this time it takes to reach the voltage of your source. If not, your wasting your time again. You do not want anymore time other than what it takes for the primary inductor to reach your source voltage which makes the magnetic field. Any more time than that is wasted in heat and or loss and core saturation. If you ever wondered what those pulse wave forms were in his drawings on the primary side, he is showing you that it takes an amount of time and pulses to reach the source voltage in the primary and then turn it off. This is called a time constants, and they are divided into frequency pulses. He shows 5 pulses most of the time on his drawing.
You will have to do the math to get yours on your primary.
Now once you have did that you will have a collapsing magnetic field which induces into the secondary inductor and through the diode because it acts as a switch and is closed due to voltage from the primary collapsing and inducing a voltage into the secondary since the diode is close the chokes are part of the secondary ratio which is also an inductor and the voltage dumped into the cell.
There is a time that this takes place this is called(T2) the other pulses after the choke in his drawings))
You also will have a time constant for this as well. When the cell is charged to the voltage of the secondary and the inductor chokes, due to the turn ratio of the primary and secondary and chokes.
This is your gating. Gating is just the time it takes for the secondary and the chokes to charge and place a charge on the capacitor.
Now when the gating is turned off and when you start the pulse to the primary again another thing happens,
The diode opens and the choke inductor collapses and creates another even higher voltage into the cell.
This is how you get your step charging and frequency doubling. It all has to do with T1 and T2 they have to be right on the money or you want get step charging.
Of course matching the inductor and capacitor, frequency and tuning the circuit (not included) LOL All this happens in an instant of time.
This also has a Magnetic feed back oil to the cicuit to tune resonant to allow voltage to raise rapidly. The Switch component can be controlled by Acellerator pedal and the pickup from Pedal sensor can adjust the duty cycle and voltage to cell.
The Vic voltage Intensifier Circuit was used by Stanley Meyer , in between the PWM and the Electrolyzer Cell Wet Cell. (water Capacitor)
It operated from a Switch circuit and raise the Voltage from PWM to the Electolyzer into the KV range.
It has 2 Chokes which are Tuned
to the Match plates, so matching chokes (each choke same size as each other if the plats in the electrolyzer are the same size..
If it is Tube Cell Electrolyzer then the choke sizes are different this inner is smaller surface are so that choke will be small to tun so both
Meyer had 10 VIC 1 for each Cell. This may have had 1 common PWM disving the switch for each as Cells in electrolyzers were in series..
Individually power but balanced on electolyzer.
The Core was 2000 Perm Ferrite core, It is a sensitive Design and work is in progress on firming the reliability of it.
All the VIC s are based on the same concept. transformer, to inductors, to cell
Stan's VIC primary is either 29 or 30 awg wire. Some people say 29 some say 30, My question is has anyone looked at the ampacity of these two wire sizes?
Ronie,as i understant stan used the same wire size for all coils.Ampacity?max curent flow?(sory my bad english).The 29awg would pulse with more curent than the 30awg.wire diameter, determines the amp flow. to many amps melts the wire
1. I think there are more parts that are not shown in Stan's drawings. (maybe that is why it does not work)
2. Someone told me about the missing parts in Stan's drawings.
3. Produce a higher voltage on the primary than 12volts using 12volts. 24 volts
( look into the design of a fly-back transformer)
4. The chokes are part of the turn ratio of the secondary.
5. You can not just use a frequency generator and a transistor to pulse the transformer.
6. Phasing the transformer is critical to getting it to work."
7.The VIC board only has one signal generator. It gets joined with the gate driver circuit.
The pickup coil
is used for resonate feedback to the scanning and PLL circuit that senses resonance. More or less senses the highest peek voltages and locks onto that frequency. More Below on the Phase Lock Loop Design from stanley Meyer below.
A phase-locked loop or phase lock loop (PLL) is a control system that generates an output signal whose phase is related to the phase of an input signal. While there are several differing types, it is easy to initially visualize as an electronic circuit consisting of a variable frequency oscillator and a phase detector. The oscillator generates a periodic signal. The phase detector compares the phase of that signal with the phase of the input periodic signal and adjusts the oscillator to keep the phases matched. Bringing the output signal back toward the input signal for comparison is called a feedback loop since the output is "fed back" toward the input forming a loop.
Keeping the input and output phase in lock step also implies keeping the input and output frequencies the same. Consequently, in addition to synchronizing signals, a phase-locked loop can track an input frequency, or it can generate a frequency that is a multiple of the input frequency. These properties are used for computer clock synchronization, demodulation, and frequency synthesis.
Phase-locked loops are widely employed in radio, telecommunications, computers and other electronic applications. They can be used to demodulate a signal, recover a signal from a noisy communication channel, generate a stable frequency at multiples of an input frequency (frequency synthesis), or distribute precisely timed clock pulses in digital logic circuits such as microprocessors. Since a single integrated circuit can provide a complete phase-locked-loop building block, the technique is widely used in modern electronic devices, with output frequencies from a fraction of a hertz up to many gigahertz.
What is Resonance
They will be no amp draw from your power source at resonance the transistor will run cold not even warm. This plainly states no amp flow in the cell. Nothing but voltage.
This shows the amp draw from your battery or power supply at resonance. He states at startup the amp draw will be 25 m/amp and at resonance it will be 1-2 m/amp.
Also, if it entered the airspace of another country without transponder data or communication, is it possible it was shot down?
I figured this out over a year ago the chokes are part of the turn ratio of the secondary. Which means that the secondary turn and the choke turn are all added together for the ratio on the secondary side of the transformer. What he left out was the word (and) in between secondary charging chokes.
Those pots are nice because you can lock them down so they won't move. They use a locking collar, and they are less than a 1 turn pot.
Stans voltage intensifier card
There are 4 chips in the bottom left quarter of the card. The bottom 2 of the 4 are CMOS chips but does anyone on the forum know the ID of the top 2?
It's part of the PLL and i'm wondering if there is a PLL chip in there or all 4 chips are part of an early flip flop style PLL?
An interesting observation is the resistor between the yellow primary and the red inductor.
If this is in series with the inductors and the cell then during mode 1 @ 5Khz is it acting like a shunt to get current circulating through the water and load the inductors?
The diode at the top is interesting, definately not a 1198 and his switching transistor is an RCA3055, going to download the PDF for that and study its harmonic distortion.
Really need those 2 chip codes if anyone has any ideas?
the upper one is a cd4046B pll vco,
the next beyond is a cd4001.
pic added will show that in detail.
hope that helps.
gpssonar should have actual circuit diagram he´s working on his replication.
I also have a circuit diagram from 2010 because at that time I rebuilt that circuitry.
the purpose of chokes
are to limit amps. however, clearly stan called them charging chokes and speaks of a charge pump. a cell is not a charge pump. the inductors are the charge pump.....resonant charge pump...... the cell then receives that charge the only way to do that is to charge the transformer, which is how i get the step charge on the scope. the chokes are on the same core as the transformer, so they are charged when the transformer is charged the only way to see it, is to do it.......you need the setup of meyer, or simular i have giving everyone the circuit designs, that i use and don gave everyone the transformer details, and cell details
The chokes are wound all in the same direction that is right and agreed to by me. But when this is said that way it really would lead people down the wrong road when they hook them to their cells. Lets look at the coils of wire in the chokes as being a spring all ready wound tight due to the primary inducing a magnetic field into them.
This is the example I'm going to use to show how the magnetic field inducing and collapsing. Now when they are induced they are wound tight and that is the direction of voltage (CW), on the positive choke when the field collapses and the spring unwinds and the induced voltage goes toward the cell (CCW), the way we want it to. Now on the neg. choke when it is wound tight (CW) and the field collapses (all coils wound in the same direction) will induce the voltage back into the secondary (CCW). This is something we don't want. We loose our neg. potential.
Now for some people, they would not know how to correct this problem. We want the induced voltage to be (CCW) and the collapsing field to go into the cell also on the neg. side(CW). So the solution is to switch the wires of the choke so the collapsing field will go into the cell (CW) so we have the same potential voltage as the positive potential going into the cell. Now we have the same voltage potential on both sides and not reflecting our neg. potential back into the secondary. I hope I got my CW AND CCW RIGHT....lol
Now the primary has to be phased right also or everything will go the wrong way on the secondary side. For those that knows how phasing works, the primary has to be out of phase to the secondary, the secondary is in phase with the positive choke and out of phase with the neg. choke to make a long story short in order to get the collapsing voltages to go where they need to be which is in the direction of the cell.
Size and tuning chokes
The capacitance is determined on each inner area and outter area seperatly. The reason for this is the way the cell is charged, and the inner and outer has different surface areas and each choke has to resonated at the same frequency with each surface area. In order for it to resonate at the same frequency the cokes has to match each surface area. If you all remember the formula Stan has in his Tech Brief. It is for one surface area only. Ever wonder why the neg. choke is smaller? It's because the positive side of the cell has a larger surface area. Stan siad the the chokes had to be the same length in most of his patents, but that was for a plate cell wher both plate areas were the same and not for a cylinderical cell. His formula always threw me for a loop that he had in the Tech brief. Now after a year later, now everyone has the answer.
Give it a shot and you will see it works, You will have the same charge potential on both plates and also the same resonance action taking place on both surface areas. Took me a fricking year to figure this one out.
So if i have both chokes the same lenght the cell wil never resonate because the plate area diference?
Only on a plate cell with the same area on each plate. If you try to use the same inductors on a cylinder cell you will have a differece of potential voltage. I always thought they had to be the same length and same inductance also until I can across this problem and thats how I found it. Here is some numbers that you can compair it to, this is the resistance of the secondary pos choke and neg choke from don' s readings of Stan's vic!!!! Secondary=72.4 ohms, pos choke=76.7 ohms neg choke=70.1 with these numbers you can add the chokes resistance together and divide that by 2 and you will get 73.4 which is real close to the secondary resistance.
Even though the neg choke is smaller and the pos is larger than the secondary they still add up to the same turn ratio while balancing the potential. As you can see with these numbers all he did was took from the neg choke and added back to the positive choke while balancing the potential voltage and keeping the turn ratio the same also matching the inductance at the same time. Stan was a clever man I must admit.
This is very interesting. I am reviewing the tech brief. Is this what Stan was reffering to on page 1-4? It seems he knew about this interaction and used a variable choke to determine some of his operating/design characteristics. Thank you for your information. RAV EMU
I think this is what he is trying to explain when he states "Dual-inline RLC Network"
Stan states that the gate was used to tune into a resonant condition of the water's movement between the tubes.
Only one gate generator was used for all eleven tube sets.
In Don's schethes he shows pin22 on the vic card outputing to the gate circuit,every card had this output to the gate circuit?
If only one gate with one vic card was used why did he build 9?
The gating circuit was used to drive all the boards at the same time. It is a manual adjusted frequency. Stan says it is used to dial into resonant action of the water between the tubes. You have LC resonance in the coils and a resonance action of the water molecule stretching and relaxing till it pulls apart.
the plls vco is being adjusted by the resonant feedback
Plus, scanning circuit, (opamp integrator)
The bilateral switch can be a simple mux (multiplexer like the 4052/3)
If you are going off of the components and values given PAy Attenion to detail the capacitor between pin 2 and 6 of the 741 op amp ( on the analog frequency generator) The second one away from the darlington pair driving transistor. Its value is not 47uF, but rather .47uf.Sometimes a detail here and a detail there can make quite a difference
The Circuit is very important to get right but the key is not the circuit, the key is a working vic coil you have to get the coil working correctly before you can use that scan, lock circuit
nce we have matched the coils correctly with the perm of the core giving us the correct frequency of around 5khz with a applied voltage of around 14.4v & 0.03mA we should be good to go with this board?
What about the gate card? I am thinking the VIC board will be no good with out it?!?
What do you suggest we do? Build our own gate card?
stans first circuits had no pll or scanning
mechanism, (those were probably used just to increase effeciency)
The circuit on his rotary generator was rather primitive. Just a 555
a few dividers and an inverter and 3 opto couplers. But a plls vco gives
a much better quality oscillation, and it changes value over time trying to
shift the phase of the incoming signal and comparing that to a reference
i have the gate board, it just needs some cuts and jumpers
but really a hand frequency gen will work just fine
your hand is the tuner and lock
as long as it is a fine tune adjustment. the 9xa was stans experimental board, you can use it for the main frequency, however, since experimenting with that circuit and the car vic circuit, i discovered that the gate needs to be more adjustable, which calls for a gate like meyer made on the car vic board. then use a transistor driver like on that epg board
In Stan's 11 cell system, the positive and negative wire of the VIC Primary Coil are both controlled by transistors. One transistor is responsible for the pulse train, while the other transistor is responsible for the voltage amplitude. The pulse train amplitude stays the same through out the process. The design intent was to limit the amount of gas produced. There was also a toggle switch to bypass the voltage amplitude transistor, and supply direct 12 Volts to always produce maximum gas output.
You want a high voltage in order to make the process efficient. Example: Power Lines operate with a very high voltage. They do so in order to minimize the losses associated with current.
So, yeah, I'd say that you can pick any voltage you want. You just have to design your components off of that value. Generally speaking, the higher the better. But be careful with high voltage!!!:exclamation:
Example: take an Electrolytic capacitor.
(forget "water fuel capacitors"!!! for the time being.)
If you go over it's rated Voltage... it blows up. Why? It was designed to take a certain voltage. Once you go over it.... well, anything can happen. :D
Could you explain your setup in more detail please? and what you mean by each plate has 1.8 volts? Thanks.
Kind of a quick walk through for the steps in the excel spreadsheet are as follows:
1) determine capacitance (based on your construction)
2) determine what frequency to use (just pick a number)
3) determine your inductor size. (Based on steps 1 & 2)
Now, "3)" is a little tricky. This is a Series RLC circuit. So, by that logic. "3)" is equal to the sum of all of your "L" values in series. Now, since "3)" has given us our needed TOTAL "L" value we must figure out how much goes on the "Positive side" and "Negative side."
The way gps and I were looking at it. if you've got square plates then the inductors you need will be equal on both sides of the plates. BECAUSE YOUR SURFACE AREA DOESN'T CHANGE.
Furthermore, if you use two concentric cylinders your surface area on both "plates" are different. I.E. your Inductors are directly related to the amount of surface area of one of your "plates".
Q&A Max Miller
Alright, look at stans international patent and
Look at the analog circuit. Look at the transistor,
(the npn darlington pair) does an npn belong there?
Is this a mistake?
the npn is fine the circuit is fine
I am talking about the amplifying transistors, Q5 and Q4,
Analog circuit of the international patent.Try to draw current through an npn transistor, connecting the collector to vcc
i use an optocoupler to a 2n3055
more or less a darlington pair
the 2n3055 will handle 15 amps, the optocouple oonly passes the amps needed for the base turn on of the 2n3055
same thing with the meyer schematic.
the tip120 is a darlington transistor , the rest of the driver just needs to turn on the base of the tip120
all current then passes through the tip 120, not the rest of the circuit. they are just simple transistors. with pull down resistors and bias resistors.
You are just using 1 driving transistor between ground and your coil right?
An npn works there.. Im not questioning that
But i find it strange that the 2n3055 (which is more of An audio transistor is used to switch, and a tip 120
Is used for an analog function... Seems reversed
that 2n3055 on the heat sink of the vic is used as a voltage regulator. to manually turn the voltage up and down. the voltage control circuit is on the vic board. so he can change the voltage into the primary up and down
yes the 2n3055 is used in radio amplifiers, but its just a transistor and is what it does here is simular to an amplifier. biased voltage on the base ,the tip120 is a darlington transistor which is faster then a single transistor. so the on and off pulse for the coil is fast the voltage change can be slower
The tip is actually switching
The coil. That makes sense.
Another thing I want to ask is this: i assumed the gate pulse
Was in a low state, but when the inhibit (pin 5 of the pll)is triggered
It drives Point G to a low state, turning on the pnp (first transistor in the amplifier circuit driving
The tip) which means the gates pulse is High.???
The coil becomes saturated and it only slightly collapses during the period of repetitive pulsing.
The coil at this points stores potential energy...released during the pulsing?
"if I have an electro-magnet, and I draw a piece of metal up to it that
Weighed 1 ton, if I kept pulling on it, I would never break the field, but how
Much energy does it take to go over there and simply turn off the switch?
Wouldnt that metal simply fall apart?....so under covalent switch off..."
Now, was his vic primary coil observed as a single winding, unidirectional;
Or was it a dual primary, bidirectionally wrapped, and longitudinally spiralled
According to the tech briefing? Or Was the steam resonator coil the vic matrix coil?
the vic board is fires the tip120 with a 50% duty cycle, it is the same wether inverted or not. the gate at the tip120 will be on for the pulse train then off when there is no pulse train............. at the coil
i believe they call that being low
the coil does charge up, but not saturated. a saturated coil would just me a magnet, with no reversing
energy must be used in the magnet.....not exactly what meyer did though
Now, was his vic primary coil observed as a single winding, unidirectional;
Or was it a dual primary, bidirectionally wrapped, and longitudinally spiralled
According to the tech briefing? Or Was the steam resonator coil the vic matrix coil?[/QUOTE
the primary is a single coil
500 or 600 turns of 30ga
secondary is around 3000 turns 30 ga
c1 is around 3000 turns of 30 ga
c2 is around 2800 turns of 30ga
all in the same direction in relation to the core shape
the feedback was center tapped......looks to be
looks like the steam resonator was maybe missing from the pics.
500 or 600 turns on the primary!!!? 30 guage?
Are you serious? That is wild! Of course he would be
Using micro amps, thats an insane resistance. Lol
Thank you kindly, ive built a lot of hho cells, but never one with such a complicated
Driver circuit. This is not just a 555 driving a mosfet...
yeah, amp restriction voltage amplification, precising adjustment of the pulse, (pulse width, pulse dwell, pulse frequency), perfect coil construction allowing for the resonant effect to take place....
A lot of people do not know this, but
When you put a voltmeter, between a resistance (in our case, water between two plates)
In a secondary circuit, (using an electromagnetic field instead of a
battery) the voltmeter will read 2 different values(at the same point, in the same time frame..depending on the orientation of the meter), kirchhoffs rules do not
Apply, (faradays law holds true, kirchhoff is a special case of faraday, where d(phi)/dt is zero),
This means you have an assymetry existing at all points of resistance
in the circuit, provided your frequency of d(phi)/dt is above 60hz. For an example, you may have +100volts in one direction,
But in the other direction...-30volts. Its a hard thing to wrap your brain around...
To study the principle video below
This is really just a charge pump, it is
Tesla 101, if you take out the spark gap
And secondary side of a tesla coil schematic, this is
What you get. The entire secondary builds over time, (provided
You have a high insulative barrier between
The secondary and the "outside world" once that is breached,
Through an arc to the core, etc, you have reached your max.
Notice how thick meyers insulation was between his coils and the core,
How they were isolated etc.This document explains the circuit behaviour using a small signal model.
A review of the Guanella 4:1 balun on a shared magnetic circuit.
Common mode chokes and Stans circuits.
Common mode chokes see here:-
It is very interesting that you cannot overload a common mode choke even with 200 amps or more. There design is to trap unwanted currents travelling in circuitry by the use of two inductors and capacitors which are put to ground.
In my schematic you will see that normal ac current goes through the inductors and into the load in two directions as per a normal ac circuit. Common mode currents however travel in the same direction down both conductors and this energy loads both L1 and L2 simultaneously.
This traps any common mode currents in the circuit. When the ac changes direction or stops, the two coils offload their collected common mode currents into the caps which in tern discharge it to ground. It is interesting to note that the chokes that collect common mode current are designed to be self resonant at the frequency or an harmonic of the common mode current frequency. Isn't that interesting?
What if Stans network is laced with common mode current and replicates a common mode choke but instead of putting it to ground he collects the energy in the caps? You can then see why he would add the diode because the diode would forward bias the inductor output after they collapse. Isn't that interesting? See lower drawing.
So in essence you could have a forward biased circuit where you could use a very small load in its normal current phase and operation, allows lots and lots of common mode currents to be trapped in resonant chokes which discharge into caps.
More interesting reading. Switch mode power supplies create masses of common mode currents. Some of Stans schematics show such switching. Is Stan creating common mode currents in his switching circuitry then filtering them into current chokes and finally caps?
So to make this work, all you need to do is build a switchmode power supply making sure you keep the ac wires between each transformer stage wide apart to futher encourage common mode currents.
The dirty switching of the bridge rectifier and transistors is what causes the currents. Transform your voltage into high tension and then measure what frequencies the common mode currents are peaking at which will probably be in the Mhz. Once you've estalished where they peak you can build two inductors that are resonant at that frequency. Everytime the transistor shuts down and we get zero voltage into the small load, the two inductors will collapse at their own self resonant frequency into the caps. Now why didn't we think of this before?
You could take any 50% duty cycle switchmode power supply that has a two inductor common mode choke, remove the circuit that shunts the collected current in the inductors to ground including its caps, put a bias diode like stans in the circuit then send the output of the chokes to a fuel cell.
All you would need is a shunting resistor across the output, that would be enough to collect enough of the common mode currents in the inductors.
UPDATE: I've been reading University papers about filtering common mode currents from pulse driven motors and switchmode power supplies. The two inductors in their filtering circuits are tuned at the resonant frequency of the main harmonics or common mode currents and get this:
THEY STEP CHARGE THE CAPACITORS AT THEIR OWN SELF RESONANT FREQUENCIES BEFORE THE CAPS DISCHARGE THE LOAD TO GROUND.
Ladies and gents, Meyer was charging his cells with harmonics not normal current. He's filtering the harmonics from his bridge rectifiers and transistors into his water fuel cells via a common mode current choke.
tans circuit as it should look. The two inductors L1 and L2 are self resonant at the main common mode current frequency. When the switchmode power supply is powering the shunt resister at V1 of the pulsing stage, common mode currents are charging the two inductors L1 and L2 which is what we see in bog standard harmonic filtering.
When those two inductors see a change in current because the main pulse changes to v0, instead of losing their voltage to ground as per normal common mode filtering, they collapse their voltage into the fuel cell at their self resonant frequency (Mhz).
This step charges the cell on every phase. To stop the cell from conducting current or reaching dielectric breakdown, the adjustable spark gap sets the voltage maxima.
The cell can only ever spend what ever value the shunt resistor is set at plus what ever harmonic distortion is present. Its beautiful.
I think this really is the breakthrough, I really do and I can't see that it isn't to be honest
Nav, if you would, check my thoughts here and see if we agree on a "mode" of operation:
The idea is to create noise spikes from the switching of transistors. We don't want to use much power in doing this so the duty cycle or pulse width should be very small. Lets say the total average consumption is less than an amp at 12 volts. Next, we collect these spikes via common mode chokes, rectify them with a diode and dump the energy into the water fuel cell, grounded on one side. The main power source isn't grounded so there is no connection between it and the water fuel cell. Essentially the power source is at a floating potential and since there is a diode in-place, the voltage can rise to extreme levels. There really is no complete circuit, so obviously amps are restricted. The only thing we need to be careful of is the dielectric breakdown of the insulation on the actual common mode choke. If it can go to 20,000 volts, then this will be the potential voltage we can have across the cell.
I must say, I like it nav if I'm seeing this correctly.
We are currently investigating the harmonics from bridge rectifiers and switching transistors combined in switch mode power supplies.
Basically, what happens is that harmonics in their varying degrees from the 1st harmonic to the 35th effect the efficiency of switching transformers and their subsequent digital networks quite a lot. One of those harmonics is the dominant harmonic in American 60hz supplies. All of those particular harmonics are related to the 120hz output of a bridge rectifier in the US and 100hz in the UK. Switchmode power supplies in the US build common mode current chokes into their network to remove the dominant harmonic which causes common mode currents, this consists of a toroid that has two inductors which are resonant at the dominant frequency they wish to remove.
When you place a shunt resistor or load across any switchmode supply, the chokes filter out the dominant harmonic and shunt it to ground through two capacitors. We strongly believe that Stan Meyer took such a device and instead of shunting the caps to ground he collected that energy into a larger apparatus. My research on this has already discovered that switchmode current mode chokes step charge capacitors in the exact same way as Stan's networks do. We believe there are also other harmonics caused by switching transistors that can be collected in the chokes. So basically we are going to utilize harmonics and instead of wasting them to ground, redirect them into a fuel cell. The cost of running such a device is the value of the shunt resistor or load you use and normal losses. I now strongly believe that the power trapped in common mode currents and their respective harmonics are what Stan Meyer was exploiting.
Work is beginning on finding the dominant harmonics and common mode currents at the moment. This can be done by anyone. All you have to do is find a switchmode power supply that has the toroid inductors and place a scope probe across those inductors. That will show you the frequency of the dominant harmonic and also the self resonant frequency of the inductor. Once you know that, the world is your oyster. There are common mode currents and harmonics on any system whether it be mains supply or your own generator or altinator.
Just to add, it may well be a combination of several harmonics that create the common mode currents we are looking for. Either way, they are trapped in the inductors and those inductors will always be self resonant at a sub harmonic or harmonic of the 60hz rectified supply.
In essence we are taking a 60hz supply and collecting all the echoes from rectifying it and trapping them in a current choke. Thats why Stan calls them resonant chokes, they do exactly as it says on the tin.
Also, here is something very interesting. I have all of Stan's schematics for all of his patents. You cannot find any device whatsoever that is designed to filter out harmonics, neither does he mention harmonics and common mode currents. Why?
If I was building a device to be as efficient as it could possibly be, my network would filter out unwanted harmonics and currents at some stage even in the VIC. Yet Stan totally ignores them, why?
Why would you ignore something that can ruin your network unless your network needed those harmonics to work? Think about it.
Stan is using the two most notorius devices known to man for creating terrible distortion of the voltage and signal which are bridge rectifiers and switching transistors yet he carries on with his switching networks without so much as a sniff of filtering. Just think about that.
All we may have ever needed are these: common mode current chokes.
The only thing I would offer to those chokes: Make sure they have really good insulation. Don't wrap mag wire right on the core. In those pictures I'd bet I could flashover with less than 1000 volts--no good.
So nav, I have a white-noise generator. Do you suppose if I connected it to a big fast MOSFET and pulsed a resistive load by way of a well insulated common mode choke and used some high power pulse capacitors, do you think I might see something if I dump the capacitors into a simple water cell connected to ground? Think it's worth a shot?
I was discussing options with a friend last night. Eric Dollard, TH Moray and Tesla talked about networks where current was at zero, impedance is very high and voltage takes over setting off towards infinity. Stan also mentions this kind of network. My friend suggested last night that if you have a situation where you have self resonant chokes which stop common mode currents at lets say for arguments sake a 2Mhz harmonic and are self resonant at that frequency; then why not ping them with 2Mhz of high voltage normal current?
As I see it, you don't need to do that and it is much easier to filter common mode current than it is normal current. A common mode choke because of the flux cancellation can never overheat no matter what voltage is sat across it. It can never suffer flux overload because of the way it is configured and the fact common mode currents travel down two conductors in the same direction rather than a conventional loop. This gives it an advantage over conventional current.
Matt, my advice would be this: Create an high tention voltage of 600v via a switchmode design that incooperates a bridge rectifier and a switching transistor like Stans. Find out where the dominant harmonics are with a scope before they go into the VIC (we dont want any blown up scopes here).
Once you find where these harmonics are, build a common mode choke that is exactly resonant at that harmonic which is toroidal like pictured and add the bias diode. When you filter out the harmonics, you will create a zero current, high impedance where voltage theoritically sets off towards infinity because current = zero.
Normally, this energy is put to ground when the switching transformer is at V0 but you can send it to step charge a fuel cell, but always remember the safety factor with high voltage.
The best thing to do at this time also is to study switchmode power supplies in depth compared to Stans designs and gather as much information as you can concerning this. Study common mode choke operation and how they create a zero current, high impedance and infinite voltage situation.
Stay safe at all times. It is also interesting to note that in a switchmode power supply that is equipped with a common mode current choke that even when there is no load across the supply, the choke continues to filter out common mode current across its caps. Thats very interesting. May explain why Stans schematics never show a parallel load to the fuel cell, it may not need one. Common mode currents may well load up Stans two resonant chokes in a none conventional loop type manner. That remains to be seen.
Just to add: Remember that when the switching transistor is a V0 and the two resonant inductors begin to offload collected harmonics into a cell, there will come a point when the water will reach dielectric breakdown which is bad. Run a spark gap in parallel with the cell so that the spark gap will short out before the cell does.
Two modes of operation, mode one - transistor switches on and causes harmonic noise which load up the inductors and pass through R4. This is the normal mode of operation and normal current passes. Mode two, high impedance, zero current infinite voltage condition: the transistors switch to off and the inductors ring at their own self resonant frequency into the cell, the cell is also resonant at that frequency. The cells consist of a dipole open ended antenna probably a quarter wave of the resonant frequency.
May be a few errors in the schematic but that is a bridge rectifier, i may have the diodes on it mixed up.
Good Job Nav,
I'm thinking we talked about Common mode before here.
here is a link:
Common Core CHOKES Link
have a good look and see what you think. any how, keep going, the only way to know it test!
Thanks Russ, I missed that due to it being in rather a large thread. Very interesting debate.
I'm interested to see how you could scale this process down into the spark plug size Stan had for his buggy.
I think if you were pinging the inductors with either an harmonic or pinging them with their self resonant frequency and the cell is also resonant by acting like a transmission line, one tube inside the other then we would be talking in frequencies of 400Mhz to a gig.
Instead of looking at common mode chokes designed for switching supplies maybe we should be looking at common mode chokes for stuff operating at UHF frequencies like TV's and radio equipment or the old analog cell phones.
Stans tubes resemble a resonant cavity band pass filter quite a lot. His whole system is looking to me like a filtering circuit from a transmission line maybe UHF.
The common mode chokes are designed to filter harmonics from the electronics and he's sending the filtered harmonics into a resonant cavity designed to filter frequencies from transmission lines. For example at 145Mhz the 3rd harmonic is 435Mhz which is a nuisance on repeaters so they use resonant cavity filters to get rid of them.
The filter is a tube inside a tube design like Stan's tubes. So all Stan does perhaps is create a strong 19th harmonic on say 20Khz which is 380Mhz, have his two inductors tuned to be self resonant at that frequency then send the signal into a resonant cavity filter tuned at that frequency. The walls of those resonant cavity filters create high voltage electric fields.
Today I experimented with a common mode choke built into a 450Mhz transmission line, the choke was on a toroid. I built a tube in tube resonant filter and added it to the toroid inductor,
When I pressed transmit on my UHF walky talky the toroid filters are resonant at 450Mhz and filter the voltage into the tubes, my wire was too thick and too lossy to see a instant reply but has i held the key for longer periods I could see the capitance step charge and as soon as it passed one volt I got bubbles of gas appearing. Just hope I havn't wrecked my UHF transceiver. When you moved the antenna really close to the receiving cable the voltage shot up and more gas bubbles.
Stan is definately using self resonant common mode chokes, whether he pings it with an harmonic or the actual resonant frequency of those chokes I don't know but I know this; if you build a resonant cavity filter properly and tune it to the inductors then you will build a large electric field on the tubes of that cavity.
BTW, my antenna on the roof is a colinear 2m/70cm job. When I connect my choke to the coax of that antenna and placed a bog standard capacitor across the choke, you can see the voltage climb on the cap from the 34mv line voltage to 700mv before it is overcome by resistive loss in the network, this is because the antenna is picking up transmissions which my choke filters and charges the cap with.
nice work testing Nav
"Stan is definately using self resonant common mode chokes"
i think your on the right track.
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Effects of Harmonics on Power Systems
Oct 1, 1999 Sankaran, C. | Electrical Construction and Maintenance
'A more serious condition, with potential for substantial damage, occurs as a result of harmonic resonance. Resonant conditions are created when the inductive and capacitive reactances become equal in an electrical system. Resonance in a power system may be classified as series or parallel resonance, depending on the configuration of the resonance circuit. Series resonance produces voltage amplification and parallel resonance causes current multiplication within an electrical system. In a harmonic rich environment, both types of resonance are present. During resonant conditions, if the amplitude of the offending frequency is large, considerable damage to capacitor banks would result. And, there is a high probability that other electrical equipment on the system would also be damaged'.
Harmonics at resonance produce massively high voltages which need to be put to ground and kept out of systems.
In a series network of 250v, subsequent resonant harmonics can produce voltages of more than 10,000v where there is distributed even inductance and capacitance within the inductors.
Self resonant common mode chokes have these qualities in series resonant circuits and if the tubes are tuned to the same resonance they will be subjected to incredibly high voltages. Eric Dollard calls this 'an electrostatic takeover' when a condition occurs where current is zero, impedance is really high and voltage takes off towards infinity.
Voltage basically takes over your network.
What if there is a Air gap in the CORE ?
The study of 5Khz Mosfet and tuning into the resonant harmonics
Below we have screen shots of a Mosfet driven at 1 volt. The 50% duty cycle is nothing to write home about with just a dominant 3rd harmonic @ 15Khz but I want you to pay particular attention to the voltage amplitude of the fundamental frequency 5Khz especially when I steal the first harmonic with a band pass filter.
At 50% duty cycle there is no 10Khz harmonic to be able to choke out at all but as we progress up to 60% and then 80% duty cycle then the 10Khz, 15Khz 20Khz come out to play as a percentage of the 1 volt which are devided by current and diminish into nothing.
Now, look what happens at 20% duty cycle, we get the same harmonics but when I take away the 2nd harmonic of 10Khz with a band pass filter, the amplitude of the fundamental frequency remains the same.
This just proves we are throwing money down the drain with CMC chokes and that energy can be harnessed.
It is interesting to note that if you build a VIC and the chokes are self resonant at 10Khz you can tune your system into the self resonance of those chokes just by tuning the duty cycle in and out which creates more harmonics for you to use, those that understand my thread on the square law of voltage and harmonics in a current free algorythm will understand how important this is.
Mosfets hate being run unbalanced, the more unbalanced they run the more dirty they run and we get more energy to multiply into high voltages. A 45% duty cycle will create enough harmonics in coils to run into thousands of volts. A 20% duty cycle will throw it into 40,000 to 60,000 volts in resonant coils because the harmonic distortions go well beyond the 8th harmonic.
Realistic harmonics would be 8th as a maximum but as you go up in voltage amplitude more harmonics come into the equasion.
@ 20% duty cycle the 2nd harmonic @ 10Khz is responsible for over 50% of the total distortion of the fundamental frequency.
Capture that frequency into a self resonant choke that has opposing magnetic flux fields and the voltage will be 90 degrees
out of phase with the cancelled current field. Send that voltage into a tuned transmission line and you will win.
The key to gas production, the hidden energy of the 2nd harmonic
Based on the schematic below and having read the patent and further studies on the architecture of transistors and mosfets in switching circuitry we can now determine which harmonic Stan created so that he can filter that harmonic into his chokes.
This morning I continued my studies of my mosfet but this time I subjected it to a frequency sweep to see where it performed most efficiently under a resistive load at 1v square wave duty cycle pulse.
Mosfets are very grumpy little animals, they produce harmonics in some frequency bands and don't produce hardly any in other bands. The architecture of the chip is responsible for this and that architecture likes to vibrate at one band but hates others, mosfets also absolutely hate being switched at less than 50% duty cycle pulse. It screws up their balance and causes huge distortions in the architecture and its mathematical equasions. This is simple denomination factors where 10 devided by 3 always leaves a value the switch cannot deal with. If the switch is dealing with 12 devided by 3 it always operates better than when it cannot devide voltages correctly. When there is no common denominator the switch gets ugly and harmonics worsen.
Todays sweep of my switching revealed that this particular mosfet likes the band 0-11Khz but when we pass 11Khz there is a sharp drop in voltage amplitude reaching less than 50% of the voltage that was present at 5Khz by the time it reached 20Khz. It had a peak at 3.3Khz then a slight peak at 10Khz at 50% duty cycle. I'm beginning to see that there is something significant about these switches at 10Khz related to their architecture. They absolutely love running at 10Khz!
But the fun really starts when we start to reduce the duty cycle at 5Khz drive frequency
I have uploaded a picture of this process and you can see the 10Khz harmonics increasing when we start to narrow the pulse, 45%, 40%, 35%, 30% and finally 15%. You can see harmonic distortion of the 1v pulse amplitude at each stage.
What is so important about this and what does it have to do with Stans schematic?
You see, what Stan is doing is this: In mode one he pulses 2 optocouplers at 5Khz, one of which has a resistor in series, the other has the cell in series and current passes through both circuits through the water but without the resistor this cannot occur, the resistor is a 50w VP50k and causes a series shunt through the water.
When those optocouplers switch off when they are running at 50% duty cycle the inductors have no voltage and there is no gas production. We know this because the mosfet only produces 10Khz when the duty cycle begins to narrow.
You see, Stan has stated in the patent that the drive circuit runs at 5Khz and the inductors are self resonant at 10Khz, in this case we can only load the coils with energy when there is a 10Khz signal present and the only way that can happen is when we narrow the duty cycle pulse width.
So gas will only begin to be produced when the duty cycle narrows and the self resonant chokes begin to filter 10Khz harmonic out of the mode one 5Khz drive frequency.
As he narrows the duty cycle pulse and produces more 10Khz harmonics the system naturally widens the gate period so that during that gate when the inductors collapse into the cell, their time period in which they do so is set by the pulse width, its a magnificent relationship.
The inductors are wound in such a way that they cancel the magnetic flux field and the voltage will be 90 degrees out of phase. When they offload their voltage into the cell they will try to become a series LC network but Stan's diode makes the voltage unidirectional, the inductors can load the cell but the cell cannot load the inductors. Step charge of the cell can be the only result.
This is just amazing to know and I hope everyone understands what is going on. It is so important to realise that as we narrow the duty cycle pulse the 2nd harmonic begins to dominate the circuit and the chokes will charge at this frequency.
I hope people can understand and if you have any questions just ask away.
Remember when cancelling current in chokes there are 2 modes as in the picture. If your harmonics are common mode then they are wired one partcular way, if they are differential mode currents they are wired another way, this picture will help you. Stan has them both ways because sometimes his circuit is balanced and sometimes it is not.
The square law of voltage, harmonics and relationship to impedance.
Everyone at some stage must wonder where Stan Meyer, Nikola Telsa, Eric Dollard and Henry Moray get their respective 'extra' energy from. Well here is an explanation as to where it comes from and why we get it.
Ohms' law and Lens' law in classical electronics tells us that basically current in any equasion is a catalyst into a diminishing algorithm. All calculations that involve current diminish into infinity.
As a simple example of this we will look at the relationship of current and harmonics in the real world then look at their relationship in a free space model.
Applying Ohms' law to harmonics is relatively simple, we can work out perfectly each harmonic in terms of percentage of the original signal source, its loss in dbi throughout the harmonic scale and the voltage will diminish as a square law relationship with harmonic distortion devided by current. This will give you the calculations for dc resistance of a half phase or impedance of the full phase of ac energy.
We know all this but lets see what happens in a free space mathematical model:
A free space mathematical model is a situation where we calculate the same laws but where there are no wires where current can enter the algorythm and so dc resistance and ac impedance are basically taken away from the equasion. This gives us an idea of what harmonics and its square law to voltage try to naturally achieve.
If you start with a wireless inductor operating at a certain frequency and the inductive value is equal to the capatitive value based on our knowledge of Ohms' law without harmonic distortion, the output voltage will remain equal to the input voltage because there is no catalyst to change the algorythm. This would also be the same in a wireless transformer because there is no current exchange.
Now lets examine harmonic distortion in the same model. If you create an input frequency that has a full range of harmonic distortions towards infinity, this is what happens.
If you have a wireless inductor of 5khz input frequency the output voltage devided by time is equal to the input voltage devided by time. If the input frequency is stopped and the wireless inductor vibrates at the second harmonic of 10Khz, the equal capacitive and inductive nodes are doubled but are devided by the same amount of time. This doubles the output voltage. If there is a third harmonic it trebles it so on and so forth.
This will not stop until the harmonic distortions diminish but in a world with no wires the harmonics are infinite and their square law with voltage is also infinite.
So when current is zero and we cannot apply current into an equasion, if there are no harmonics present the output voltage will remain the same as the input voltage at a certain frequency but when harmonics are applied, because of their square law with voltage, will double the input voltage at every harmonic level towards infinity.
If we come back to the real world of wires and resistance and reintroduce current into the equasion, Ohms' law will diminish the voltage back from infinity into reality and resistive loss.
How do we get around this?
We need to create a reality where current is no longer part of Ohms' law and where voltage takes off towards infinity square to harmonics. To do this, firstly we must cancel current. To cancel current we must make two opposing current fields cancel each other out so it is impossible for linear activity to take place.
If you build a series circuit that is fed by 5Khz input into a capacitor Ohm's law will apply for the loading of that capacitor, if you add a series inductor into that circuit and it performs with the capacitor, Ohm's law will still apply. You will not win!
If you build a choke that is self resonant at twice the input frequency, that is the second harmonic of the fundamental frequency and you build it with two inductors that are wound in such a way that they cancel the each others flux field out, when those chokes filter that second harmonic they will do so in a condition where current is not present in the algorythm of Ohms' law and they will double the input voltage.
Now, because current remains at zero, the third harmonic, the fourth harmonic and every possible harmonic in an infinite direction will also be filtered into those inductors and even though Ohms' law deminished them before they got inside the inductors in the wiring of the series circuit, it does not matter, even if the 7th harmonic was very weak it will still increase the input voltage by a factor of 7 and the 23rd harmonic will increase the input voltage by a factor of 23 and it will keep going towards infinity if the wiring of the series circuit allowed it to do so.
Now, getting the voltage out of the inductors into a load is a difficult factor that needs to be thought about. When those inductors collapse it is impossible for them to collapse in a linear motion, they can only collapse 90 degress out of phase with the current which has been cancelled by opposing flux fields. So we now have high voltage 90 degrees out of phase with current at each terminal of the inductors.
The only way to ensure that current doesn't come back into the algorythm is to match the condition of the inside of those inductors on the outside of the inductors. That means you match the real world impedance of the coils in the wiring to the cell and the cell also matchs the real world impedance or both match it together as one.
To match the coils impedance then it has to fall into its resonance too, so the total length of the wires and the tubes together must be just under a quarter wave of 10Khz because less than a quarter wave is capacitive in nature but above a quarter wave is inductive.
If you extend the impedance and resonance of the coils to the tubes, current cannot enter Ohms' law again. So what we are looking at is a shortened transmission line with little losses.
I hope this has given people a better understanding of how voltage sets off towards infinity and its square law to harmonic distortion and the importance of resonant impedance matched transmission lines.
It is important to read Stan Meyers patents and fully understand what is going on. If you look at the picture which Russ kindly supplied there are a few things going on that need to be explained.
Firstly, you notice nine switches which indicate that the outer tubes of the cell are wired in parallel through the switches. The inner tubes are wired differently, they are still in parallel but because he only switches the positive side, he uses a common ground for all nine inner tubes.
Right, about the brown staining of the tubes: There are two modes of operation in the VIC, the first one is based at 5Khz and is a normal mode of operation that uses the cell as a short circuit to pass current around the series circuit.
The second mode of operation is paracitic of the first mode in which harmonics starting at 10Khz and all subsequent harmonics that the series circuit allows are filtered into the two chokes then during the gate period are released at resonance into the cell but on the outside of the inner tube and the inside of the outer tube which remain shiney.
The staining is iron oxide and you can see it all over the top spacer.
That oxide has been caused because of the following effect: During normal mode which is mode 1 at 5Khz, current passes through the water in between the tubes with a skin effect using the outside surface of the inner tube and the inside surface of the outer tube.
During that ionic process, the rest of the tubes are coated in iron because of the anode and cathode effect of electrolysis. When mode 2 turns into a capacitance of high voltages the iron coating is blasted away with high speed Oxygen and Hydrogen molecules,
So in essence mode one coats the tube with iron but mode 2 removes it. However, the voltage field that causes the Oxygen and Hydrogen in between the tubes is restricted to that region and so the iron coating in the inside of the inner tube and outside of the outer tube will not be removed and that is exactly what we have.
You also notice that the outer tubes have slots cut in them. This is the method he used to fine tune the tubes into resonance and the same technique is used for tuning resonant cavity filters that remove common mode currents from transmission lines. He uses a wiper arm inductor to vary this together with varying frequency when different amounts of tubes are used, the PLL follows these factors.
Now about the winding of Stans inductors. If we are removing common mode currents which contain the harmonics we are interested in then the inductors are would opposite on the same toroid core, this will cancel the flux field and current will be zero.
If there are harmonics present which are not common mode ie normal current harmonics then in order to filter those harmonics we would need to wind them the same way but I doubt that is the case. I believe that the strongest harmonics are common mode currents and I have captured these harmonics at 3khz with disastrous consequences because I didn't match their impedance and resonance properly and reintroduced current back into the equasion.
If there are ANY impedance spikes in your system they will flyback at the input or light the cell up like a Roman candle. I believe Ronnie has experienced this already like I have, remember to stay safe.
Here we see mode 1 ionic staining on the tubes and white spacer.
We see the inner tubes have a common parallel ground and the resonant filter
tuning slots cut in the outer tubes which indicate
Stans cells behave the same way as resonant cavity filters in a transmission line.
There are so many people failing at replicating Stan's work it is unbelievable, the reason we are failing is because we do not understand this technology. We have all tried various different set ups with no success or maybe a little success,
I myself have theorised different possibilities and different ideas hoping to inspire a realization in someone, it is important to keep people inspired and keep them believing Stan's work can be done because this road is long.
This particular endevour is different however. It's different because members can now begin to grasp how Stan's networks operate. Not only that, because we are beginning to understand paracitic currents and how to store them in current chokes with muliplying voltage in a current free algorythm, you don't need Stan's schematics anymore.
You can design your own schematics that don't even operate fuel cells but other apparatus. The mathematical free space model shows us that voltage is square to the infinite path of harmonics when current is kept from the equasion. We know how to cancel current in bucking coils, cmc chokes and series current chokes but we don't know what to do with the voltage field and its working condition.
The working condition is the keys to the kingdom. Since 1970 we have been drilled and taught to keep away from cmc's and their respective harmonics at all cost and we've been shunting them to ground not even caring to think if they could be useful. We've been creating cmc chokes that cancel current with opposing flux fields and shunting out of phase voltage to ground without even understanding or measuring the energy we are wasting or looking at its potential. The reason we have done this is because we never realised that the voltage field needs a working condition to flourish that extends the current free algorythm from inside the inductor to the outside network.
Yet we play around with transmission lines all day understanding perfectly the concept that the oscillator impedance must match the line and antenna impedance at 50 Ohms and that the antenna resonance must match the oscillator frequency or the whole transmission line will fail!
If you know this information then you already have the keys to the kingdom where the inductor voltage is concerned.
You see, Stan takes the voltage from his chokes and matches their impedance with the line and the antenna, the antenna being his tubes. He matches the frequency of the chokes with his tubes so they are resonant and the whole thing acts like a shortened transmission line like Ronnie has being telling us all along.
But there is a difference, in a normal transmission line you need voltage and current to transmit, this system has no current so it cannot transmit but it will still act like a transmission line. If your resonant line and antenna (tubes) are cut just short of a quarter wave then they will become capacitive in nature and they will try to form a resonant series LC network with the inductors.
The problem is, Stan has placed a diode in the series circuit so the inductors will load the antenna but the antenna cannot load the inductors. That means that during every gate period when the inductors become self resonant the diode becomes a switch because it allows the inductors to charge the antenna but not the antanna to charge the inductors and there is only one thing that can happen from here on in - the inductors will step charge the antenna with no reply. Ain't that right Ronnie?
People messing around with flat plates - it will not work, people messing with tubes that are not capacitive and are not cut less than a quarter wave of the inductors self resonant frequency - it will not work, ain't that right Ronnie?
So to sum up this system: You need to create a series VIC circuit on a toroid with a secondary and two chokes connected to the fuel cell. The chokes will be self resonant at 10Khz and wound so that the flux fields cancel each other out.
But here is a little secret about the chokes: The more windings on the chokes the higher the voltage will be at resonance of 10Khz. The reason is because there are more distributed C and L nodes and always remember our square law - when current = zero, voltage doubles at every harmonic level. So if you make your coils self resonant at 10Khz, 15Khz, 20Khz etc etc the voltage is expotential. Just make sure that you reach the minimum for resonance.
A coil that has 1500 windings that is self resonant at 15Khz will produce the same voltage as a coil that has 4500 windings on and self resonant at 10Khz but when the latter coil vibrates at 15Khz, 20Khz, 25Khz the voltage takes off towards infinity square with harmonics.
The VIC operates in two basic modes:
Mode 1. Normal current passes through the VIC and through the cell at 5Khz provided by a dirty bridge rectifier and mosfet, this current is high enough to pass through the water. While this series current takes place the chokes are loading with cmc's all through the harmonic range related to 5Khz and its dirty harmonics.
Mode 2. When normal current shuts down from the dirty mosfet, the chokes sense a change in current and collapse at their own self resonant frequency into the tubes. Because there is no current available (the flux field is cancelled in the toroid) the voltage is 90 degrees out of phase and will enter any system that contains its working condition.
The line impedance and antenna are a impedance match as well as a resonance match, the chokes will try and form a series LC network with the tubes but we know the diode only allows it to go one way so it step charges the cell.
Based on my current free calculation minus losses in a less than perfect impedance match, also based up to the 23rd harmonic as being the last, wound on inductors that at are exactly double the input frequency is
126960v per second from 12v input @ 500ma in mode 1.
@ the 8th harmonic which is more realistic is 15360v per second
@ the 3rd harmonic 2160v per second
Those figures were based on a 20:1 step up transformer@ 500ma
At step up based on 40:1@ 1000ma the figures are:
@ the 3rd harmonic 4320v per second
@ the 8th harmonic 30720v per second.
If you allowed these voltages to enter an untuned network it will light it up like a firework.
Be very careful!
The charge pump analogy is correct insofar as getting the energy into the cell.
The next question is how do you get the water capacitor to oscillate at resonance ? You'll need more than one cell and hook it up right. I see a lot of discussion on the boards about parallel or series connection of the cells.
Two positives and a common negative will do it. This circuit demonstrates the use of four DC caps to oscillate at resonance. Although the circuit serves a different purpose, it's used here to illustrate the use of DC cap hookup to get them to oscillate. Just like the Tesla oscillator.
only thing i can see the isolated ground was used for was measuring with a scope probe.
i still need to tune the transformer
the frequency gen is ready, plenty of tuning i have there and the power supply is done.
now to tune the transformer
I guess there are two answers to that, one
schematic shows a center tap on the secondary
connected to an isolated inductor, (voltage wave guide section of the tech brief)
The other answer is, it isn't connected to anything, isolated
meaning it is not electrically common with earth ground or
the primary circuit.All the previous circuits like 8XA, 9XA showed a common electrical ground between the inductors and the FWBR. The later model multi-spool assembly also showed the inductors grounded. I'm going to try it both ways. At the very least there should be no harm in having common ground.
the vic transformer
1200 perm is right on the money
1600 perm is on the money with a piece of tape on one side to make a gap.
2000 perm however is closer to the frequency of 5khz
i would say the inductor needs to be 1 H for 10 cells in series
really i am not sure of the inductance needed for one cell
i have tried the isolated ground to ground.....as well as grounded the neg of the cell......... nothing
as long as the amperage is low..........should be no harm done in the connection
the injector would have been grounded to the engine block
You need a good on that will never die. and a square wave that is razor sharp .
So you can choose 50% duty or variable duty. turn the knob and watch the signal on the scope smooth.
Use diferent drivers for different things. the driver is what handles the real power. the frequency gen is just 5 volt signal out. most all frequency gens will output 5 volt signal. like 100 mili amps. the trick is to pass the signal to the load, with no smoke.
So all my drivers are isolated from the signal frequency generator. some a driver.
Can See P Gen or Rustic Freg Generator.
Link for P GEN
One thing I thought about was this....The coil drive pulsing and gate pulsing were not synchronized.
So, having the VIC's all wired like that does not make sense to me because at times some VIC's would be off and others would be on, so some of the coils would be acting as loads and some would be acting as sources if they were connected as you have shown....
SOMEONE TELL ULF TO GET ON THESE FORUMS!that should not happen if the primaries are pulsed in parallel. each of them can have it´s own switch to handle their individual back emf but they are all pulsed by the same source generatoror bettereach primary gets it´s own pulse generator but those generators are all synchronized and only duty cycle of each primary can be slightly different to fine tune all serial transformers
(i don´t expect that Meyer had this equipment but with a single PGen pulse generator in phase shift lock mode you can easily perform that task for 4 primaries because it´s a built in standard feature).
Dan, as you might already know, everything was in boxes. Nothing was hooked up to each other. If you look at the VIC control panel, you will see two round plugs. The top one is labeled "Fuel Cell", all of the out connections of the VIC coil packs came out of there seperately. You got to remember that the coil packs plugged into the VIC cards. They were both inside that control panel. Now how these were actually wired to the cell, we don't know for sure. I never seen any type of connection that went to the resonant cell. There were cables there that tied everything together, but I didn't have them when I brought it all home to test. We weren't able to find them at the time. My guess is that there was one VIC control card and coil pack for one tube set. Each one was probably wired seperately at first. Then Stan may have rewired them and made all the tube sets as one connection. I think that only one VIC card and coil pack ran all ten tubes, once they were wired in series. That's just my opinion, based on the scanning circuit of the VIC card. I don't think that you could wire more than one together, because of the scanning circuit. I don't think two of them could work in series or parrallel. There isn't any pictures showing a wiring connection goint into the resonant cavity, that could help us figure it out. Only that they were all wired in series.
VIC sequential firing
This is From Lynx RWG Forum Advanced Effort
the idea with the sequential firing is that for every edge transition, both on the leading and on the trailing edge of the main operating frequency, one of four transistors are cut off, thus discharging it's associated transformers stored primary energy into the secondary, which in turn feeds the WFC through it's diode, all along the way as the other three transformers primaries are being charged, which means that three transformers are continously fully loaded and ready to fire when the time comes.
i still need to tune the transformer
the frequency gen is ready, plenty of tuning i have there and the power supply is done.
which could mean that at the correct frequency the natural ringing/oscillating of the secondary circuit will be enhanced regardless of which one of the transformers that's being discharged, only this time by a factor of 4, thus enhancing the stepcharge accordingly.Having seen the cells being attached in series on Meyer's own WFC I can't help but wondering if his VIC's were controlled this way, by firing 1 VIC while the rest of them were being charged.Why else the need of 10-11 VIC's if all the cells are connected in series?
Voltage Regulation of the VIC CIRCUITS
VIC Voltage Circuit This interpretation was done by Max Miller
The Picture Below is of an inverter 10 to 15 volts go in DC,
To the transistors. the transistors are doubled up for handling maybe 30 amps.
Transistors are doubled because there 2 sets.
Each set is a push pull driver. into inductors to slow it down into the transformer..
This makes an AC current. then to the rectifier, converts it to DC again.
The reason this was done was ,a car alternator runs at 14.5 volts a car battery without the car running is 12 volts.
Under load of starter or hho cell, the battery could hit 11 or 10 volts. at this point the ignition coil, vic, injector
and vic would not operate correctly. Also, any 10 or 12 volt regulators in the circuitry would not be working correctly.
This is because they have 2 volt voltage drops. so 10 volts would be seen as 8 volts so you see, this is a
voltage regulation device for the vic circuits not a water heater.
The full wave bridged rectifier is a dead give away. you will also find its description in the birth of a new tech. paper
it speaks of a voltage regulation circuit. the water heater does not use a full wave bridged rectifier
Voltage Regulation of the VIC CIRCUITS
VIC Voltage Circuit This interpretation was done by Max Miller
Notes From Max
In the Example of a fuel cell circuit of Figure 2, a water capacitor is included. The step-up coil is formed on a conventional torroidal core formed of a compressed ferromagnetic powdered material that will not itself become permanently magnetized, such as the trademarked "Ferramic 06# "Permag" powder as described in Siemens Ferrites Catalog, CG-2000-002-121, (Cleveland, Ohio) No. F626-1205. The core is 1.50 inch in diameter and .25 inch in thickness. A primary coil of 200 turns of 24 gauge copper wire is provided and a coil of 600 turns of 36 gauge wire comprises the secondary winding. Other primary/secondary coil winding ratios may be conventionally determined.
An alternate coil arrangement using a conventional M27 iron transformer core is shown in Figure 9. The coil wrap is always in one direction only.
In the circuit of Figure 2, the diode is a 1N1198 diode which acts as a blocking diode and an electric switch that allows voltage flow in one direction ■ only. Thus, the capacitor is never subjected to a pulse of reverse polarity.
The primary coil of the torroid is subject to a 50% duty cycle pulse. The torroidal pulsing coil provides a voltage step-up from the pulse generator in excess of five times, although the relative amount of step-up is determined by pre-selected criteria for a particular application. As the stepped-up pulse enters first inductor (formed from 100 turns of 24 gauge wire 1 inch in diameter), an electromagnetic field is formed around the inductor, voltage is switched off when the pulse ends, and the field collapses and produces another pulse of the same polarity; i.e.. another positive pulse is formed where the 50% duty cycle was terminated. Thus, a double pulse frequency is produced; however, in a pulse train of unipolar pulses, there is a brief time when pulses are not present.
By being so subjected to electrical pulses in the circuit of Figure 2, water confined in the volume that includes the capacitor plates takes on an electrical charge that is increased by a step charging phenomenon occurring in the water capacitor. Voltage continually increases (to about 1000 volts and more) and the water molecule starts to elongate.
The pulse train is then switched off; the voltage across the water capacitor drops to the amount of charge that the water molecules have taken on, i.e. voltage is maintained across the charged capacitor. The pulse train is then reapplied.
Because a voltage potential applied to a capacitor can perform work, the higher the voltage potential, the more work is performed by a given capacitor. In an optimum capacitor that is wholly non-conductive, zero (0) current flow will occur across the capacitor. Thus, in view of an idealized capacitor circuit, the object of the water capacitor circuit is to prevent electron flow through the circuit, i.e. such as occurs by electron flow or leakage through a resistive element that produces heat. Electrical leakage in water will occur, however, because of some residual conductivity and impurities or ions that may be otherwise present in the water. Thus, the water capacitor is preferably chemically inert. An electrolyte is not added to the water.
In the isolated water bath, the water molecule takes on charge, and the charge increases. The object of the process is to switch off the co-valent bonding of the water molecule and interrupt the sub-atomic force, i.e. the electrical force or electromagnetic force, that binds the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to form a molecule so that the hydrogen and oxygen separate.
As noted initially, the capacitance depends on the dielectric properties of the water and the size and separation of the conductive elements forming the water capacitor.
EXAMPLE I In an example of the circuit of Figure 2 (in which other circuit element specifications are provided above), two concentric cylinders 4 inches long formed the water capacitor of the fuel cell in the volume of water. The outside cylinder was 0.75 inch in outside diameter; the inner cylinder was 0.5 inch in outside diameter. Spacing from the outside of the inner cylinder to the inner surface of the outside cylinder was .0625 inch. Reasonance in the circuit was achieved at a 26 volt applied pulse to the primary coil of the torroid at 10KHZ, and the water molecules disassociated into elemental hydrogen and oxygen and the gas released from the fuel cell comprised a mixture of hydrogen, oxygen from the water molecule, and gases formerly dissolved in the water such as the atmospheric gases or oxygen, nitrogen, and argon.
An alternate coil arrangement using a conventional M27 iron transformer core is shown in Figure 9. The coil wrap is always in one direction only.
this says you can change cores...........even iron.............there is no way an iron core will hit its Q at 10khz............mine did at 500hz.........480hz really
the diode is a 1N1198 diode which acts as a blocking diode and an electric switch that allows voltage flow in one direction ■ only. Thus, the capacitor is never subjected to a pulse of reverse polarity.
any fast diode of the correct voltage and amperage should work
its just a diode
10khz is slow, really...........not so fast anyway
step-up from the pulse generator in excess of five times, although the relative amount of step-up is determined by pre-selected criteria for a particular application
200 to 600 turns....pulsed, it says steps up 5 times
thats what i got....24 volts to 150
it will change to different turn counts....it says..........common sense..... he is saying change it, it you want........
As the stepped-up pulse enters first inductor (formed from 100 turns of 24 gauge wire 1 inch in diameter), an electromagnetic field is formed around the inductor, voltage is switched off when the pulse ends, and the field collapses and produces another pulse of the same polarity; i.e.. another positive pulse is formed where the 50% duty cycle was terminated. Thus, a double pulse frequency is produced; however, in a pulse train of unipolar pulses, there is a brief time when pulses are not present.
first inductor...............means there must ne more then one............one on pos and one on neg, i would say..............he tricked us............
the pulsing fiends forms 2 pulses, as ronnie had said....
pulse train...........he means there is a gate............another trick
there is a brief time when pulses are not present...............again he tells you there is gate............
he is hiding the secret in plain site.................words confuse and get missed, yet they are there............he told the truth and yet hid it
the capacitor plates takes on an electrical charge that is increased by a step charging phenomenon occurring in the water capacitor. Voltage continually increases (to about 1000 volts and more) and the water molecule starts to elongate.
here is the obvious.....................with the cell attached you must hit at least 1000 volts for the reaction to start
thats just the start.............
i would guess that is one tube set, per 1000 volts.................tubes in parallel would all raise at the same time, maybe..........tubes in series..........i can not grasp it doing that..........but who really knows
The pulse train is then switched off; the voltage across the water capacitor drops to the amount of charge that the water molecules have taken on, i.e. voltage is maintained across the charged capacitor. The pulse train is then reapplied.
thats the charge pump.............dependent on the correct workings of the pulse train
you must be tuned correctly for it too function...........everything
Because a voltage potential applied to a capacitor can perform work
high voltage potential............not amps.............this does not mean you use zero amps to make it work...............thats impossible
you have to use real physics............in real physics...some things are always there..........
the vics in the car where on 5 amp fuses..............that is a no brainer..............they make 3 amp fuses.........he used 5 amp fuses
as noted initially, the capacitance depends on the dielectric properties of the water and the size and separation of the conductive elements forming the water capacitor.
this says...........change shit and shit changes..........
obviously there was shit in the water and tubes can vary in size and shape
Reasonance in the circuit was achieved at a 26 volt applied pulse to the primary coil of the torroid at 10KHZ, and the water molecules disassociated into elemental hydrogen and oxygen and the gas released from the fuel cell comprised a mixture of hydrogen, oxygen from the water molecule, and gases formerly dissolved in the water such as the atmospheric gases or oxygen, nitrogen, and argon.
obviously he says it was resonance at 10khz..............for that toroid made of ferrite..............
mixture of hydrogen, oxygen from the water molecule, and gases formerly dissolved in the water such as the atmospheric gases or oxygen, nitrogen, and argon.
obviously it is natural water................
surely everyone can work with that information................
now get to work...........and do not forget...............this is the real forum.........that is doing the work.
i had better not catch anyone looking in and going back to other forums, telling what they found with out saying where it came from........
and believe me.........i will know.
there is no reason why people can not post there work here, when the found work here. share and share alike
ris pointed that info out.............he is helping
come on guys............show the world what your made of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don & Max
Are you seeing double the frequency at the load, compared to the frequency into the primary?
How is it that your scope also shows positive voltage out of the choke at the load? I never see that with my set up.
I'm using an isolated transformer to power up my equipment. The isolated transformer has been modified to separate the earth ground from the neutral leg on the secondary side.
I have my equipment back together and have done some initial testing. Looking to do a video today to show my results.
as long as the secondary is not grounded, its the same as isolated ........the transformer becomes your isolation transformer. if you were to ground the secondary to the primary............then it is not an isolated ground......
unipolar pulse train....................... thats what stan always said..............if you can not get the pulse on the pos side...........you will never get a charge pump. or step charge.
if your scope is not an isolated ground..........you may be grounding out the neg probe to the transformer and the wall outlet.
this is a 4 channel isolated ground scope.........all channels are isolated from each other and the wall......they are cheap........3 to 5 grand
MISC INFO FOR BASIC REFERENCE NOT METHOD
ok this is for adys15
i got a beautiful step charge with that simple coil
24 volts in....2 amps
one tube set was 22 volts
10 tube set was 95 volts....series connection
some bubbles and i tell you............it is not done............
The problem with that board is, it was meant to be plugged into the VIC coil pack, and it also ties into the GMS control panel. I'st part of a whole system. That board alone is only one piece of a larger puzzle. I think it's meant to be seen as a copy of Stans original one. It would require a lot of bypassing to make use of it. Just like I had to do when I tested Stans original.
It is a nice copy though.
yes, we have made the bypass as well. the gate has to go into it for one.
it is exactly what the other one was. whatever the one did. this one will as well
the circuit you see is just a pulsing circuit. pulsed into the vic. the feedback auto adjusts the frequency.
don had the original on, and made few bubbles. it is not as simple as just make the same circuit as he made. it is a relationship to the pulse and what is being pulsed. how the cell reacts and how the pulse reacts and how the inductors fit in.
its like knowing how a v12 engine works and building the same. some details take some time to figure out. where does the timing chain get set. the valve lash? injector timing? what if the valve has a leak? what about back pressure on the combustion chamber?
it is not as simple as build tubes, build vic, build circuit
there are many small details, that matter hugely. Max
this is the driver for the vic
in that board, it is there
end of discussion............no not really
in that board also is a variable voltage driver.......
end of discussion.......no not really
obviously we can see a voltage changer, and the pulse into the pnp transistor would be the inverse of the pulse into the npn transistor at the end
A small heads up... the quad bilateral switch within the PLL section on the VIC board says 4066 - but in ^ photo and don's drawing it is a 4016 Well i realized the 4066 is basically identical to the 4016
If and when people see how the water bath is charged only then will they understand how it is charged.
Why people keep trying to throw voltage to the cell is beyond me.
Let the vic do it's job and and set up the process to produce ions in the water bath.
There were only 1 Vic ever hooked up and used in the VIC unit. One battery voltage and signal connection and 1 cell output for 1 Vic.
There is one another Battery voltage and signal exposed.
Here is the proof that 1 was ever hooked up. This is the back of the VIC Unit, They are circled in yellow in the photo.
The rest of the vic connections and battery voltages has shrinkable tubing over them for protection.
All I was trying to do is show that the VIC's did not need to be hookup that way.
From looking at the photo, one can only conclude that 2 vic's were ever hooked up in that unit.
There is 1 battery voltage and signal connection that is straight across to a cell connection.
There is also 1 battery voltage and signal connection that has no cell connection across from it.
What this tells me is there was 1 for the fuel cell and 1 for the gas processor.
Everyone can make their own conclusions about this. I am only expressing my own.
You have to think about what all is on the buggy is to why there is so many vic slots.
1: Fuel Cell
2: Steam resonator
3: Electorstatic water filter
4: Gas processor
5: Who know's what else Stan had in his mind.
They all take vic's, and they all in my mind are resonate cavities. So don't let the labels on the front panel fool you.
The Steam Resonator and Gas Processor is the only two that are Labeled, other than other resonate cavity slots.
Also if you were building this would you not be thinking ahead if you needed to add another cell for larger engines other than a 4 cylinder.
As someone said, everything Stan built was for proof of concept, I agree 100%. Everything he built was to be shrunk down into a small package once things were proven to work.
Do your homework and research.
As far as the water injector plug, This is were people are mixing all the technologies together with the water fuel cell technology.
In the water fuel cell tech, the laser distributor used the regular coil and points inside the distributor for the spark for the spark plug. The laser distributor in this technology was used only for the timing of the injection of the gas to enter the cylinder.
In the Water injector plug technology, There was another laser distributor and it not only sent a signal to the GMS Unit for gas injection it also sent a signal to the water injector VIC which is a stand alone Vic and is not part of the VIC Unit for spark ignition timing