Vic Bobbin Style 1 Stanley Meyer
Winding the VIC
all the VIC s are based on the same concept.frequency switch to transformer transformer, to inductors, to cell
Vic Winding for 11 clell tubes
VIC:- primary - 200 turns / 24 gauge- secondary - 600 turns / 36 gauge- resonant chokes - 2 x 100 turns / 24 gauge
(in accordance with Stan Meyer`s US Patent 4,936,961)
MAx Millers Forum
The primary is a single coil 500 or 600 turns of 30ga
secondary is around 3000 turns 30 ga
c1 is around 3000 turns of 30 ga
c2 is around 2800 turns of 30ga
all in the same direction in relation to the core shape the feedback was center tapped......looks to be
the transformers stan made were 29GA and 36Ga secondaries.
it depends on what you wish to try.
i would suggest trying exactly what stan made. the square vic was all 29 GA 29-30GA
The VIC Coils
Transformer Primary Yellow
Transformer Seconday Blue
Pick Up Feed Back Green
edit below chokes cw and secondary & primary ccw
30 ga wire for the bobbins on the C coresdon made a small error , he said 29 ga, 29 ga is not correct to fill the bobbin as the picture shows. 30 ga must be correct
The 10-11 cell is not made to be adjustable. It is made to be stable, Meaning, every cell machined to the same size so each and everyone will have the same capacitance. Like max said that is the reason their is one cell that is not hooked up. That is how you adjust the capacitance, by hooking up one through what ever to get the capacitance you need. As in the video you can see by adding more capacitance you can reduce your inductance. If you are using a varic to drive your cells then you know your drive frequency is 120Hz once it goes through the bridge rect. Then you need a resonate frequency for the inductor and capacitors that will match your drive frequency. The permeability of the core is something we all have been playing with. My best luck so far is some were around 2000 perm. The higher perm. the less winds you need which will give you the same inductance as a low per. with more turns if you follow me. Right now I am useing a low perm on the primary and a high perm on my chokes. It is working out well for me right now. You will have to experiment with your setup. That is way it is so critical that everyone have the same setup. Because what works for my setup want work on yours.
NOTE FROM TONY WOODSIDE
Well as Stan states in his papers that the chokes act as a frequency doubler, then you cannot use the basic series LC formula 1/(2pi* sqrt(LC)) to find the Resonant Frequency. So i came up with a formula to find this resonant frequency. Here is an example:if you pulse the Primary @ 5khz, the Secondary will also pulse @ 5khz, the chokes will have 5khz going in but will have 10khz coming out so that the Capacitor will be hit with a 10khz frequency!!!So for a normal LC non-doubling circuit you would have the following:Primary pulsed @ 5khz the LC resonant frequency for a setup with the Sec+L1+L2= 9H and C= 1.6nF Resonant Freq. = 1327 HzNow this same set up as a LC Frequency Doubling circuit would give the following resonant frequency:Primary pulsed @ 5khz the Resonant Frequency = 938 HzSo as you can see we have a lower Resonant Frequency from the same circuit and the only difference one is configured as a frequency doubler. This has to be accounted for in Stan's setup!!!!
NOTE FROM DON
The blocking diode goes to the positive choke and always goes to the positive tube (outside tube).The negative isolated ground wasn't hooked to any ground either.In Stans circuit,there is a 5 amp 1000 volt diode between the TIP120 and the primary coil.
Stan also put a diode across the inputs to the primary.From ground to positive.
NOte From MAx
ordered Magnet Wire 30 AWG Gauge Enameled Copper 200C 5lb 15660ft Magnetic Coil Winding
you can look at the ohm reading of dons measurements, then look up the ohms per 1000ft of wire. a little math will tell you how many feet is on the bobbin. i posted how many turns i came up with somewhere..
ohms value can change slightly, due to exact size of wire and tension stretching it. the wire size can vary slightly due to tolerance and manufacturer.
the coating on the wire can change the inductance sllghtly, thickness vary as i said about the wire
from memery, 500 turns on primary, 3000 secondary, inductors are 3000 and one was 2800..........roughly
i will find my measurements just remember different wire from different companies can vary in ohms and even you put too much tension on it can change the readings.
i took and wound the wire to read the same ohms, then took note of everything else.I believe the turn count will be greatly effected by this. more then 10 turns. I am in favor of 500 turns to the primary and 3000 turns for the secondary.... inductors changed respectively.
3000 turns is a lot, the inductance will change greatly with the turn count. and odd number of turns effect things greatly as well
I hold to my theory that 2000 perm it is for the inductors
and my theory is the primary and secondary needs to be an even number, based on transformer theory. however there is no known theory for the inductors. I say theory because there is no car running on water at this time. when we are finished and the car is running, we call call each theory a fact.
all electric theory are called theory because , new theory comes along all the time. and science simply can not explain everythingtalked to don last night on the phone.............he says 29 gage is what he measured.
however different manufactures make a minor difference in wire size. i still like the 30 ga
i wound 29 and 30............30 ga looked the best
Vic 1 Ferrite Core
Vic 1 PLastic Bobbin
3d Printer Files Section
Different perm of ferrite cores tested with a ramping wave pulse output HIgher Perm Higher Voltage
Feed Back Coil -Pick Up Coil
Used to Find and Lock Resonance The pickup coil is used for resonate feedback to the scanning and PLL circuit that senses resonance. More or less senses the highest peek voltages and locks onto that frequency.They will be no amp draw from your power source at resonance the transistor will run cold not even warm. This plainly states no amp flow in the cell. Nothing but voltage.
Sometimes to learn how something works......we need to study it..high frequency pulsed DC into a transformer and study the blocking diode reaction, and the inductor reaction..........flux permability and back emf and many other things going on here. core saturation and flux fields are also very interesting. voltage peak to peak and pos and neg............so many things going on............how to learn what is not in the book.........do it........write your own bookferrite or iron...........its a core ...do what needs done Max Miller
Well according to Don's drawing the center tap is start of the wind and logically you would want a very small signal going to the phase lock loop circuitry.
Thereby giving you small deviations on the 5K hertz center frequency. If you read the international patent Stan talks about impurities knocking the cavity out of resonance. Impurities which would change the dielectric value of the water molecule. See attached photo for clarification.
Again none of this would have been possible if it weren't for Don Gable documentation of the Stanley Meyer Estate. See Don's attached drawing for clarification.
so 2 coils center tap is the startsss which one is longer then the connected side or the not connected side The one that gives you the most bubbles using 10 Vic's
need to figure out 10 center tap non-inductive feedback coil need to be tuned in.
This shows the amp draw from your battery or power supply at resonance. He states at startup the amp draw will be 25 m/amp and at resonance it will be 1-2 m/amp. So if your drawing more than 25 m/amp at startup would you not think you have something not designed properly on the primary side? I would think so. the chokes are part of the turn ratio of the secondary. Which means that the secondary turn and the choke turn are all added together for the ratio on the secondary side of the transformer. What he left out was the word (and) in between secondary charging chokes.
I agree with that but and measures taken from cell ,what says that on primary winding may be different input
and according to my knowledge it is easier to tune cells with stronger power -Of course that can slowly reduce
and pickup coil if so then it does not allow drop of magnetic field or opposite
and as we see in the transformer secondary coil and cokes it's all one secondary coil which is located only 50% in unipolar magnetic fields
and so we have a potential difference plus and minus properly distributed 50% 50% in both fields
and as you said that is a common transformer
what most people is missing is how to get more voltage than 12volts out of the primary when it collapses into the secondary. A typical 1-30 stepup transformer ratio with 12volt into the primary will give 360 output voltage. Everyone needs to look into how to get the 12volt to produce a couple thousand volts or more before it collapses into the secondary. There is a way to do this, and it all depends how the primary circuit is build and designed. Study how a fly-back transformer works and you will find the answer.
The 25 milliamps is measured going into the cell, not into the primary. The primary input current will be much higher. That being said, it still boils down to watts in watts out. So if we put 12 volts in and 2 amps, we get 24 watts power in. Now if we have 25 milliamps at the cell input, that means we have 960 volts going to the cell, still 24 watts. Then when resonance is achieved, at 2 milliamps that would be @ 12kv at the cell, again still 24 watts. Watts in watts out.
The way I am reading it is this: You are pulsing in say 360 volts to the capacitor, which the diode (600v) can handle easily.
This voltage can't return due to the diode. So in goes another pulse and we have 720v stored in the capacitor, then on the 3rd pulse its
1080v etc. I just think the the huge voltages are accomplished inside the capacitor (cell) and not in the vic coil. When the capacitor reaches
the required voltage (matching the dielectric of the water) the water breaks down.
The cell is after all an unlimited capacitor only limited by the water itself. And when that limit is reached hey presto!
I have no idea how to measure the voltage potential in between the plates but that's where I think you will find the high voltages and not
in the vic coil.
resonance should start with less impulse and more watts or power in creating HHO gas,and then move slowly with increasing pulse and decreasing power -Now if you hit a high voltage from the start such current will pass through the water without any problems
when we create HHO My opinion is ,bond breaking is also liberates current and this current will increase with time in cells-not chokes
the purpose of chokes are to limit amps. however, clearly stan called them charging chokes and speaks of a charge pump. a cell is not a charge pump. the inductors are the charge pump.....resonant charge pump...... the cell then receives that charge
the only way to do that is to charge the transformer, which is how i get the step charge on the scope.
the chokes are on the same core as the transformer, so they are charged when the transformer is charged
the only way to see it, is to do it.......you need the setup of meyer, or simular
amps are current, which is electron flow. volts are independent from amps. if you were only using voltage potential.............electron flow would be at a minimum. a voltage potential, would not be consuming anything. like a battery not connected. it has pos and neg ions...........a voltage potential. you can charge that battery with ma. or huge amps. you can hit it with high voltage pulses as well. over charge the battery, and you produce hydrogen
not going to get into how to create more voltage on the primary side with 12volts there are more parts on the primary side than just a frequency generator and a transistor. I gave everyone a reference to look into, there is a lot of math involved on the primary side. Either you believe in Stan's words or you don't. He said no electron flow on the secondary side just voltage other than 1-2 m/amps through the cell.
Stan said no electron flow on the secondary side just voltage other than 1-2 m/amps through the CELL MAIN ROLE OF Stans transformer Preventing the flow of electrons AND PHYSICAL thin wire would not withstand FLOW
But if you fill CELLS with an electrons Magnetic field OF transformer AND HIGH ELECTRICITY WILL PREVENT ENTRY larger amounts of electrons in the WIRES NOW STAY resonance AND magnetic field that pushes electrons FORWARD AND BACK Which are located only in cells
AND THIS IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING For , WE NEED ONLY CONFIRMATION OF DATA
The reason I started this thread is so many people are using a frequency generator and a transistor to pulse 12volts or what ever voltage into a primary and expecting more voltage out of the secondary than the turn ratio will allow. Stan used an example of a 1-30 ratio transformer. If you put 12volts into that transformer all your ever going to get is 360volts out. Well If you believe in what Stan says, he said the voltages can reach as high as 20000volts. But if you find a way to turn the 12volts into 600volts first you will output 18000volts with a 1-30 ratio. Now the challenge for everyone is to find a way to do it. While maintaining your resonate frequency.
STANS TRANSFORMER IS ONLY DEVICE FOR resonance ,And as you have already proven YOU HAVE resonance in THE WATER cell or Capacitor
Now the resonance WILL resonate that charge in a cell FOREVER FOREVER FOREVER FOREVER FOREVER
AND BECAUSE OF magnetic fields AND CHOKES ELECTRICITY will not enter into TRANSFORMER Will remain in the cell where AND WILL NEED TO BE
Produce a higher voltage on the primary than 12volts using 12volts. ( look into the design of a fly-back transformer)
The chokes are part of the turn ratio of the secondary.
You can not just use a frequency generator and a transistor to pulse the transformer.
Phasing the transformer is critical to getting it to work.
And we can't put any more than 600 volts from secondary to the chokes/inductors.......
According to the upper limit of the inline diode.
Ok C can get up to 500v from a 120v to 12v turned around and pulsed.
So that's 384% more power than normal.
ok so vic coil is 500 primary and 3000 secondary. Ratio 1 to 6.
So if we put 12v in we would expect 72 volts out.
But working on the pulsed theory we might see 277v or thereabouts.
So if we double the input voltage to 24v the figure comes out at 554v
Now that's magically just below the the diodes upper limit.
Once beyond the diode we still have a step up of 1 to 2 from primary to the inductors.
Oh goody that gives us 1108v as a straight ratio. Over the 1000v threshold.
But does the pulsing effect stop at the diode???? if not and we are looking at another gain of 384% twice........
Eh that gives us 2127v or 4254v if its twice.
So can I hazard a guess that we nee to be putting in 24v
the diode will pass the pulsing. so the chokes will charge as well
i got over 2k volts onetime with a transformer that was not connected
30gauge wire at 1000 feet has a resistance of 103.2 ohms.
Don Gabel gave us 2 readings 11.1 ohms and 11.5 ohms.
That comes out to 107.5 feet and 111.5 feet. Seeing that is a noninductive bifilar wind one would ask where does the voltage come from that feeds the phase lock loop circuitry. It would come from the no connection wire!
you need to figure out 10 center tap non-inductive feedback coil need to be tuned in.
Not just one !!!
""I had the VIC circuit system at my house twice.
The first time was without the GMS control panel.
I had to bypass parts of the systems to get the VIC cards to turn on.
Then once I had them working.
""I WAS ABLE TO GET THEM LOCKED ONTO RESONANCE.
But there was never any gas being produced.
""(this means that the pll and scaning circuits are on the vic card ,and read
on...''.....''the scanner would lock on to...''
When looking at the scope shots of the resonance signals,it looked a lot like what we all
have seen with our ouw setups.
The only difference was that the scanner would lock onto the third harmonic of the signal.
It never locked onto the first or primary one.
By this third harmonic I mean,it would lock onto a pulse train of three pulses.
The first pulse would be the largest,the second would a little smaller and the third
would be the smallest,and then it would keep repeating.
Now there may still have been something else that needed to be hooked up that I didn't
Or there may have been something Stan had removed to keep it from working that we don't
know about ,because he never published it to prevent anyone from replicating it.
So that's about all I can say about it. I couldn't get it to work.
Too much of the system had to be put into a bypass mode,that may have kept it from
working,or something was still missing that we don't know about.
Thinking like a radio wave all voltage a little bit of magnetic and absolutely no current!
MAx Miller Reported He got zero current and 300 volts across the cell mili ohm meter had no movement.........none
He is sure there was a mi-nute amount......the point is the feedback would be picking up a very small field
Testing the Original VICS
Used to Find and Lock Resonance
Don "Also was able to test all the VIC driver board and they would all lock on to a resonance once I adjusted the small blue pot on the board. It's a frequency centering pot. It sets up the range of the scan frequency. No gas output at all, it would make the same signal as my own test. An AC sine wave, at a couple hundred volts if my memory serves me right."
Heat Sink & Transistor
This shows what the signal should look like into and out of the Stan Meyer VIC.
quotes from stan meyer " to accomplish the formation of unipolar gated pulse-wave (64a xxx T3 xxx 64n) without experiencing "signal distortion" or "signal degradation" (preventing transformer ringing during signal propagation) as elevated voltage levels ""Switching Diode (55) of Figure (3-22) prevents Bidirectional electron flow (current flow in one direction only) since Blocking - Diode (55) only conducts "current flow" in the direction of schematic-arrow while being placed in-line with VIC Circuit impedance interaction (R1 + Z2 + Z3 .•. Re),
as mathematically extrapolated in Circuit Equation (Eq 9) ... Diode (55) being placed between Secondary Pickup Coil (52) and Resonant Charging Choke (56) to act as an electronic switch in open-position during pulse off-time (T2) of Figure (7-8) while preventing electron flow in reverse direction when Inductor (L1) collapsing electromagnetic field (FLl) produces another unipolar pulse wave-form ( 64a - 64b) ... producing unipolar voltage wave-form (64a xxx 64n) during repeated pulse-signal (46a xxx 46n) on-time (Tla xxx TIn) ..
. allowing the formation of an gated pulse- frequency pulse-train (64a/64b - T3 - 64a/64b) when pulse off-time (T3) is greater than time-period (T2) ... input-signal (49a xxx 49n) being a Pulse-Train where (T2) pulse offtime (T2) is adjusted to allows Unipolar Pulse-Train (64a xxx T3 xxx 64n) ... outputting Voltage-wave signal (64a xxx 64n) being a pulse-frequency doubler due to Inductance Reactance (FL) of Inductor Coil (56) of Figure (3-22) when collapsing magnetic field (FI) of Figure (7-3b) re-cuts coil-wrap (Ll) during each pulse off-time (T2) ..
. producing a second unipolar voltage wave-form (64b) during the rise and fall of magnetic field (71), as further illustrated in (620) of Figure (7-1).""Component Interaction promotes Component Reactance during D.C. pulsing operations while allowing variable voltage amplitude (Vo - Va -Vb - Vn) of Figure (7-13) to be attenuated independently of Voltage Pulse frequency""Inductance Reactance not only increases voltage across water-capacitor (ER) beyond applied Voltage Potential (626) of Figure (7-7) but, also, establishes "Impedance Field" (FL) across Inductors"" increases applied voltage amplitude (Vo - Vn),
doubles input frequency (64a * 64b) when 50% Duty Cycle Pulse (Tl = T2) is inputted, effectuates "Step Charging Effect" ""Inductors (LIIL2) should always be larger than Capacitor (ER) of Figure (7-2) in order to maximize amp restriction to enhance "Voltage Deflection" ""Capacitor (ER) should remain relatively small due to the dielectric value of water ""In terms of thermal explosive energy-yield (gtnt) under dynamic pressure of compression approximately 7.4 (µl) microliter of a liquid-volume of a water droplet per injection cycle is all that ~s required to run the Dune Buggy 1600cc 50hp VW I.C. engine at 65 m.p.h. on the open road; whereas, a typical 325 hp diesel I.C. truck-engine would require about 48.1 (µl) microliters of a water droplet per injection cycle to accomplish the same open road performance. (see WFC Water vs Gasoline Energy Content Equations (memo WFC 429)."
Vic Style 1 Core
The vic transformer Core Permability
1200 perm is right on the money
1600 perm is on the money with a piece of tape on one side to make a gap.
2000 perm however is closer to the frequency of 5khz
i would say the inductor needs to be 1 H for 10 cells in series
Power Supply Frequency Generator
of the VIC CIRCUITS
Can anyone explain to me what the unipolar magnetic field coupling is exactly?
my theory is its a circular constant motion of energy
Not sure why Stan uses unipolar in the description, but the magnetic coupling is how a transformer works. A pulse is made in the primary coil when a voltage is applied. When that pulse ends, it is transferred through the core material as a magnetic flux, and picked up by the secondary coil. There isn't any physical connection between the two coils. So power is transferred through magnetic coupling. Only a pulse can passed through, it has to turn on and off to work. If you just apply a straight voltage to the primary , it won't pass through the core until it turns off.
They are time constants involve in pulsing the primary Di/Dt that is his the reason he shows 5 pulses for 5 time constants. Look into this you will find your answer.
yes ronnie knows i was messing around. you will not find any unipolar pulse in the test books............ it is the way the pulse is input into the coil and back out again.............there are many educated people who have said meyer was a scam, because there is no such thing as a unipolar pulse. but there are several on this forum that have generated them....not just Max
Home Builder Replications
Kits and Parts List
VIC Kits and Parts
This board was meant to be plugged into the VIC coil pack, and it also ties into the GMS control panel. I'st part of a whole system. That board alone is only one piece of a larger puzzle
.It requires bypassing to make use of it. yes, we have made the bypass as well. the gate has to go into it for one. it is exactly what the other one was. whatever the one did. this one will as well
The circuit you see is just a pulsing circuit. pulsed into the vic. The feedback auto adjusts the frequency.
Don had the original on, and made few bubbles. it is not as simple as just make the same circuit as he made. it is a relationship to the pulse and what is being pulsed. how the cell reacts and how the pulse reacts and how the inductors fit in.
VIC Driving Circuits
this is the driver for the vic in that board, it is there end also is a variable voltage driver
obviously we can see a voltage changer, and the pulse into the pnp transistor would be the inverse of the pulse into the npn transistor at the end
Amplitude Control from the VIC
"While working out the routing of the various circuits in the VIC card,I have found that there are four op amps on the one end of the board.
Three of these op amps are shown in the schematic,and the fourth one is not.The very first one of the op amps, the one closest to the tabs that plug the board in,is not in the schematic,and gets a signal from some source,and the second op amp gets a signal from the GMS control panel circuit Analog Voltage Generator.
Now these two signals come into the coil pack through the nine pin connector and pass into this board.What I have found is that the first two op amps are wired in parrallel and go into the third one.
There seems to be two different signals coming into these first two op amps,and are being joined. Ok so my question to you all is, what other signal could be coming into these op amps?
What purpose would it be to join two signals together through op
Those op amps go to the voltage amplitude control circuit.
Tesla Vs Meyers
Look Very Close at the Details.
This is really just a charge pump, it is Tesla 101, if you take out the spark gap And secondary side of a tesla coil schematic, this is What you get. The entire secondary builds over time, (provided You have a high insulative barrier between The secondary and the "outside world" once that is breached, Through an arc to the core, etc, you have reached your max. Notice how thick meyers insulation was between his coils and the core, How they were isolated etc.
Stan Meyer-VIC Replication parts
-4 ea pieces UY1658 MnZn ferrite core from Ebay, Amazon, Aliexpress
-4 ea pieces 1613-0 bobbins from cosmocorp
-3,000ft 29 AWG heavy magnet wire from Temco
-3/8 or 1/2 plastic washers
-MUR1560 diode -200 or 400 grit sandpaper
You'll also need a means to clamp the cores together, I mounted mine in an aluminum enclosure with aluminum L channel, screws,
and delrin bushings against the cores.
For the connections I used a terminal block as well as delrin bushings, insulated BNC connectors, and SMA coax connectors.
*The ferrite bead pickup coil will not give you accurate voltage readings... but it does show you what your waveform looks like and makes finding resonance much easier.